Ball seating question?

[Loyalist Dave]

Oh Good Grief....

“Do not ram, or pound, the ball down the bore, and do not “whang” the ball with the ramrod onto the powder—simply seat the ball firmly on the powder with a light pressure on the ramrod. If the ball and patch does not slide fairly easy down the bore form a point about six inches from the muzzle by applying pressure to the ramrod, the patch is too thick, or the ball too large for the rifle, and ramming or pounding the ball down the bore will upset it making it merely a slug of lead instead of a sphere and thus destroy all accuracy.

Be careful to seat the ball on the powder with a uniform pressure each and every time, because if you seat it very lightly one time and very hard the next, the two balls will have quite different points of impact on the target. “

Ned Roberts The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle p. 103

LD

 

[jeff b]

I could be wrong but I think that if the ball is not seated on the powder the rod wont bounce . If the ball is seated the rod will bounce

 

[Newtire]

Previous to the Internet, I had never seen or heard of anyone bouncing their ramrod. Sounds like a great way to deform the ball. If a ball is stuck, I can't imagine how throwing a ramrod down onto it is going to help. To each his own and to me my own too!

 

[Stumpkiller]

Probably will loosen the ferrule tip on a wood rammer as well. But some folks seem to like it and it is their equipment.

 

[Carbon 6]

I could be wrong but I think that if the ball is not seated on the powder the rod wont bounce . If the ball is seated the rod will bounce

You are correct.

The thing that bothers me is when I see guys pushing hard to seat the ball. The usually lean over the muzzle and bear down with their weight, putting all the stress on the wrist of the gun . This seems extremely dangerous.

 

[necchi]

The thing that bothers me is when I see guys,,

,,"bounce the rod", thinking they need too "bounce the rod" to prove a ball is seated.

 

[FishDFly]

Oh Good Grief....

“Do not ram, or pound, the ball down the bore, and do not “whang” the ball with the ramrod onto the powder—simply seat the ball firmly on the powder with a light pressure on the ramrod. If the ball and patch does not slide fairly easy down the bore form a point about six inches from the muzzle by applying pressure to the ramrod, the patch is too thick, or the ball too large for the rifle, and ramming or pounding the ball down the bore will upset it making it merely a slug of lead instead of a sphere and thus destroy all accuracy.

Be careful to seat the ball on the powder with a uniform pressure each and every time, because if you seat it very lightly one time and very hard the next, the two balls will have quite different points of impact on the target. “

Ned Roberts The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle p. 103

LD

I often wonder what Ned Roberts and Walter M. Cline would have to say if they were alive today and read the postings here from some of the typing experts.

 

[FishDFly]

Another great myth based on an ounce of truth.

Experience, based on what really happens.

 

[Carbon 6]

I often wonder what Ned Roberts and Walter M. Cline would have to say if they were alive today and read the postings here from some of the typing experts.

They would probably write an updated version of their books, correcting any mistakes, omissions, opinions, or outdated material. Then they would make some more money selling a new book.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

They would probably write an updated version of their books, correcting any mistakes, omissions, opinions, or outdated material. Then they would make some more money selling a new book.

I wonder if fellows who set records at 220 yards, some I think that are still standing, need to correct much of anything from the time period in which they authored their books? It was old tech when they penned their books.

LD

 

[FishDFly]

They would probably write an updated version of their books, correcting any mistakes, omissions, opinions, or outdated material. Then they would make some more money selling a new book.

Have you ever read either book and looked at the targets in them?

Photos of targets do not lie, do they?

 

[Carbon 6]

Have you ever read either book?

Yes a long time ago. I gave all my books away to youngsters so they could begin their muzzleloding journey.

Did you carefully read what I have written or are you simply passing judgement based on your own interpretations.

If you take issue with something specific then please tell me and we can discuss it like adults. There's no need for this to devolve into a petty argument. If you don't want to discuss it publicly there is the PM feature.

 

[8 BORE]

Oh Good Grief....

“Do not ram, or pound, the ball down the bore, and do not “whang” the ball with the ramrod onto the powder—simply seat the ball firmly on the powder with a light pressure on the ramrod. If the ball and patch does not slide fairly easy down the bore form a point about six inches from the muzzle by applying pressure to the ramrod, the patch is too thick, or the ball too large for the rifle, and ramming or pounding the ball down the bore will upset it making it merely a slug of lead instead of a sphere and thus destroy all accuracy.

Be careful to seat the ball on the powder with a uniform pressure each and every time, because if you seat it very lightly one time and very hard the next, the two balls will have quite different points of impact on the target. “

Ned Roberts The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle p. 103

LD

A greater book on muzzle loading rifles has never been written and probably never will.
I have a signed first edition in the safe deposit box.

 

[Rich]

Well, seems to me if you cant tell if your ball is seated you probably do not need to mess with muzzleloaders. Mark your ramrod! Its not rocket science. No you dont need to bounce your ramrod off the ball. You can easily tell by feeling the ball contact the powder or looking at your reference marks. This aint hard.

 

[8 BORE]

Your right it aint rocket science, it aint even science. Seating the bullet on the powder,is like backing a truck to a tree. You know when your there!!!!.

 

[Scota4570]

This thread has become argumentative for the sake of arguing. It is very off putting.

 

[TFoley]

The Polisar Brothers, Steve and Joe, for whom I have nothing but the greatest respect, write copiously from their many years experience shooting a Whitworth style rifle - theirs, I bleeve, are real Parker-Hale rifles. Their advice when loading their own swaged patched or unpatched 500gr hexagonal bullets, is to 'send the bullet down to the charge with as a smooth as possible. (Do not tamp the bullet down the barrel) with approximately 40 pounds pressure. They go on to advise '(the use of) a bathroom scale is a good way to find the proper "feel" for pressure. With experience they can be dispensed with. Their pet load is 80gr of GOEX Cartridge (FF). Latterly I've found that Swiss #2 is somewhat cleaner, and reducing it to 75gr seems to do the same job.

I realise that we are shooting a somewhat specialised projectile here, and not a bare or patched ball, but the results speak for themselves, at least, for me and for them.

 

[Carbon 6]

The Polisar Brothers, Steve and Joe, for whom I have nothing but the greatest respect, write copiously from their many years experience shooting a Whitworth style rifle - theirs, I bleeve, are real Parker-Hale rifles. Their advice when loading their own swaged patched or unpatched 500gr hexagonal bullets, is to 'send the bullet down to the charge with as a smooth as possible. (Do not tamp the bullet down the barrel) with approximately 40 pounds pressure. They go on to advise '(the use of) a bathroom scale is a good way to find the proper "feel" for pressure. With experience they can be dispensed with. Their pet load is 80gr of GOEX Cartridge (FF). Latterly I've found that Swiss #2 is somewhat cleaner, and reducing it to 75gr seems to do the same job.

I realise that we are shooting a somewhat specialised projectile here, and not a bare or patched ball, but the results speak for themselves, at least, for me and for them.

In that particular case., being extra gentle make perfect sense.

 

[Dave Orchard]

Read Dutch Shoulz, wipe between shots, feel the "crunch" when you firmly seat ball on powder, mark loading rod.....
Saving "springing the rammer" for seating wads in a smoothbore...
Dave

 

[sgeisz]

A number of years ago, when Pyrodex first came out, an old (this was late 70's and he was a WWII vet) and I ran a series of experiments with a .45 round ball gun, a pair of .58 muskets and an original Billinghurst underhammer slug gun). One thing we found with Pyrodex was that it was quite sensitive to loading pressure. You could easily have two groups if you varied the seating force. We devised a rod with a pinned washer, a spring and another washer so that when the washers touched (or had the spring compressed) the ball or bullet would be seated to the same pressure. Accuracy was greatly improved.
I never subscribed to the "bounce it" theory. We had another club member back in the sixties who swore that you had to whang it down hard enough to bounce out the barrel but then again, he never hit the ten ring much less shot any accuracy examples.