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45 cherokee
- Thread starter smooth
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playfarmers
45 Cal.
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2005
- Messages
- 647
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- 1
My old Investarms .45 liked 60g of 3f, and would not shoot accurately with any more powder.
SgtSchutzen
45 Cal.
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2008
- Messages
- 626
- Reaction score
- 6
The hunting load I use in my .45 CVA Kentucky is .440 ball /w .015 patch over 65grs fffg bp. I think 90grs is a bit much for .45cal. I only use 80grs for my .50cal
Guest
90 grains in a .45? I think that is a waste of powder.
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2008
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- 5
smooth said:
IMHO I would take a different approach.
I would start at 50 grains at 25 yards and work up slowly if at all. See what your gun likes.
When you are satisfied with the accuracy results.
Then move your target to the range you feel you are most likely to see game at zero it there and do a penetration test.
On a side note 90 gr in a 45 sounds like overkill. But I do not have a 45.
Good luck :thumbsup:
paulvallandigham
Passed On
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- Jan 9, 2006
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- 80
I don't know your barrel length, but 65 grains pushes that ball out near 2,000 fps. of most muzzles. Anything more than that can only be justified by owning a gun with more than a 36 inch barrel.
Even with the longer barrels, the Law of Diminishing returns enters the picture like a Nasty old Aunt, robbing you of money by stealing any extra velocity that you may have at the muzzle, from anything you will find down range.
The 125 grain RB just does not carry energy and velocity downrange well. At 50 yds, you are going to lose 25% or MORE of any MV. At 100 yds, you lose 45% or more of the MV. Once the ball drops down below the speed of sound, it does lose velocity as fast as it did above 1135 fps., but its still losing velocity. The faster you push that ball out into the air, the greater the drag factor, and the more velocity you lose.
Will using 90 grains of powder damage your gun? Probably not. This is not a safety issue. The makers of modern MLers consider the fact that most new shooters come from the Modern gun ranks, where you have been indoctrinated and infected with Magnum-itis- the belief that MORE IS BETTER! With black powder traditional guns, and a PRB, More IS NOT better!
The PRB kills deer well- and has been doing so for hundreds of years-- because of its diameter( even a .45 is much wider, and leaves a larger hole in a deer than any .30 caliber " deer " cartridge ever will), and because the soft lead will expand the diameter of the ball inside the deer, even at low speeds. Its the perfect projectile to use in killing thin-skinned game out to 100 yards, the practical limit for most shooters using open sights.
A lot of MLers want an " edge " even with deer hunting, so they buy a .50( the most popular caliber, I am told) or even a .54 caliber ML rifle. While the two larger calibers definitely put bigger holes in deer, there is no indication that they actually kill deer better with a vital organ hit than does a .45. At 100 yds, or a bit beyond, you are just more likely to have the larger caliber balls completely penetrate both sides of a deer on any broadside shot, whereas, at the longer ranges, the .45 ball may be found just under the skin on the far side, flatten of course. There is just so much dead you can make a deer.
For greater penetration with any round ball, some shooters are loading balls they cast from Wheelweights- a harder alloy that does not permit much expansion, unless heavy bone is struck. Such a ball will completely penetrate a deer at 100 yds.+ in a .45, or even a .40 caliber rifle( where they are legal to use).
I hope this helps you decide on a better load than the 90 grains you were thinking of using. When I was shooting my .45, I used a load of 50 grains for target work out to 50 yds. If I had taken it hunting, I would have loaded 60 grains( FFFg powder), but no more. MY brother's new .45 has a 37 inch barrel, and 60 grains really burns up well in that gun, and gives fine accuracy out past 100 yds. He has a DeHaas barrel, and that may just account a bit for that superb accuracy, however.
There are long range shots I will not hesitate to take on a range at a target or bangplate, which I would never take on any living animal, just because there are so many more variables in the field that are beyond control- such as wind- that will move that ball away from my POA, and possibly either miss, or wound and cripple a deer.
Its fine to practice those long range shots on a range. It makes you a better shooter at those distances, but IT also makes you a better shooter at SHORTER distances. Discipline yourself to take the shorter shots in the field, and pass on the long ones. You will respect yourself more, and any deer you do kill will be a true trophy for you, regardless of its sex, or size of its antlers. Check out the comments under the hunting topic below. :thumbsup:
Even with the longer barrels, the Law of Diminishing returns enters the picture like a Nasty old Aunt, robbing you of money by stealing any extra velocity that you may have at the muzzle, from anything you will find down range.
The 125 grain RB just does not carry energy and velocity downrange well. At 50 yds, you are going to lose 25% or MORE of any MV. At 100 yds, you lose 45% or more of the MV. Once the ball drops down below the speed of sound, it does lose velocity as fast as it did above 1135 fps., but its still losing velocity. The faster you push that ball out into the air, the greater the drag factor, and the more velocity you lose.
Will using 90 grains of powder damage your gun? Probably not. This is not a safety issue. The makers of modern MLers consider the fact that most new shooters come from the Modern gun ranks, where you have been indoctrinated and infected with Magnum-itis- the belief that MORE IS BETTER! With black powder traditional guns, and a PRB, More IS NOT better!
The PRB kills deer well- and has been doing so for hundreds of years-- because of its diameter( even a .45 is much wider, and leaves a larger hole in a deer than any .30 caliber " deer " cartridge ever will), and because the soft lead will expand the diameter of the ball inside the deer, even at low speeds. Its the perfect projectile to use in killing thin-skinned game out to 100 yards, the practical limit for most shooters using open sights.
A lot of MLers want an " edge " even with deer hunting, so they buy a .50( the most popular caliber, I am told) or even a .54 caliber ML rifle. While the two larger calibers definitely put bigger holes in deer, there is no indication that they actually kill deer better with a vital organ hit than does a .45. At 100 yds, or a bit beyond, you are just more likely to have the larger caliber balls completely penetrate both sides of a deer on any broadside shot, whereas, at the longer ranges, the .45 ball may be found just under the skin on the far side, flatten of course. There is just so much dead you can make a deer.
For greater penetration with any round ball, some shooters are loading balls they cast from Wheelweights- a harder alloy that does not permit much expansion, unless heavy bone is struck. Such a ball will completely penetrate a deer at 100 yds.+ in a .45, or even a .40 caliber rifle( where they are legal to use).
I hope this helps you decide on a better load than the 90 grains you were thinking of using. When I was shooting my .45, I used a load of 50 grains for target work out to 50 yds. If I had taken it hunting, I would have loaded 60 grains( FFFg powder), but no more. MY brother's new .45 has a 37 inch barrel, and 60 grains really burns up well in that gun, and gives fine accuracy out past 100 yds. He has a DeHaas barrel, and that may just account a bit for that superb accuracy, however.
There are long range shots I will not hesitate to take on a range at a target or bangplate, which I would never take on any living animal, just because there are so many more variables in the field that are beyond control- such as wind- that will move that ball away from my POA, and possibly either miss, or wound and cripple a deer.
Its fine to practice those long range shots on a range. It makes you a better shooter at those distances, but IT also makes you a better shooter at SHORTER distances. Discipline yourself to take the shorter shots in the field, and pass on the long ones. You will respect yourself more, and any deer you do kill will be a true trophy for you, regardless of its sex, or size of its antlers. Check out the comments under the hunting topic below. :thumbsup:
410-er
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2005
- Messages
- 1,126
- Reaction score
- 7
Here is what TC sezs.
http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/current/Shooting_TC_Side_Lock_Black_Powder_Guns.pdf
Used 50grs of FFFg in my 45 Seneca this year and killed with no problem.Want to add a 45 Cherokee to the rack sometime.They are great little guns and I don't want to over power that small stock.If I want to burn more powder,I'll use the 45 TC Hawkens.
http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/current/Shooting_TC_Side_Lock_Black_Powder_Guns.pdf
Used 50grs of FFFg in my 45 Seneca this year and killed with no problem.Want to add a 45 Cherokee to the rack sometime.They are great little guns and I don't want to over power that small stock.If I want to burn more powder,I'll use the 45 TC Hawkens.
Last edited by a moderator:
ohio ramrod
75 Cal.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2008
- Messages
- 7,473
- Reaction score
- 2,202
I have shot fourty five's for over fourty years and have never had one that did not loose accuracy if using over 60 grain with prb . It didn't matter if it was FF or FFF.
Rat Trapper
62 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2006
- Messages
- 2,648
- Reaction score
- 7
Per TC 90 grains of 2F is max for the PRB in a 45 cal Cherokee or Seneca rifle. That's a lot for that light stock to handle. My Seneca shoots pretty well with 70 grains of 2F Goex and PRB. I didn't get better accuracy with 3F and decieded to leave the 3F for the 32 Cherokee.
