45 cal PRB for mule deer.

[oldwood]

LOL w/ P.Office. Todays mail contained a Christmas card mailed day after Thanksgiving. Wish ya lots of luck W/ new rifle...oldwood

 

[deermanok]

I recently bought a 45. Didn't get a chance to hunt with it yet but it's nice little light weight rifle. For my rig, I find that 60 grains of 3f Old Ensyford and a 440 prb is a good load. The recoil is more of a gentle push than a slap as with my 50's.

 

[oldwood]

Deerman............440 r/b ..60 gr. fffg is my old 200 yd iron target knock down load. Only target that wouldn't fall over consistantly was the 25" cub bear iron. Had to hit it in upper 1/2 of the bear. In the wind or bad light was my fault if I didn't connect. My 50 always put the cub down no matter where hit , but the .50 was a young man's gun , too heavy. The .45 was better for the closer targets...............oldwood

 

[Bad Karma]

Fyi, I am thinking about using a .45 percussion Kentucky for a bull elk this year, but I will be using a conical of some sort. Just like the idea of a lighter gun to pack around. That is if the post office ever delivers it!
Walk

I used to tell the fellows that if they couldn’t pack a 9# rifle maybe they should devote some time to an exercise program... the conceit of youth. Now in my golden years I know that no amount of time in the gym can compensate for the injuries, the wear and tear, the inevitable march of time... I’m 74, still hunt alone quite often, (my wife swears I’ll die out there alone... Doesn’t seem such a bad end to me.) my favorite area is almost 2-1/2 miles from the trailhead and nearly 3000’ up and these days it takes a lot longer to go in and come out. Someday that may be all I get done in a days hunt.

Long story longer, I appreciate the lighter rifles too... gotta carry them all day, only shooting once. I hope.

 

[R.J.Bruce]

Whenever these caliber vs. caliber discussions come up as threads, the underlying truth that must be addressed from an individual hunter's perspective is, "How do I define hunting?"

Each of us has a somewhat different definition of the word "hunting", depending upon the EXACT CIRCUMSTANCES that occured as our ethics were defined by our teachers, our life's hunting circumstances, and the way WE CHOSE to ethically react to each set of circumstances as they occured when WE FOUND OURSELVES ALONE, AND REQUIRED TO REACT to a particular situation.

As any firearms enthusiast knows, the smallest calibers are capable of killing deer-sized game, IF USED WITHIN THE BALLISTIC PARAMETERS OF THE CARTRIDGE/ M-L CALIBER.

Yet, in every single thread of this type that I can recall reading, blanket statements are constantly being thrown about calibers suitable for mule deer vs. whitetail deer, .40 caliber vs. .45 caliber vs. .50 caliber vs. .54 caliber.

When I return to the hunting fields, if a shoulder-fired weapon is to be in the mix, it will HAVE TO BE a .40 caliber rifle with a wide buttplate. My steadily increasing osteoarthritis, and my PCP have dictated that any return to rifle shooting be in a very low recoiling caliber. As well as switching constantly back, and forth, from shoulder-to-shoulder to distribute the recoil as evenly as possible between both sides of my body. As well as a shooting vest with recoil absorbing pads for both shoulders.

This means that an accurate pair of range finding binoculars will HAVE TO BE PURCHASED, and utilized to determine the range, before pulling the trigger.

A custom rifled Spanish Escopeta (patilla flintlock) with one of Colerain's, gain twist rifled, 1:36" twist at the muzzle, A-weight, 38" long, American pattern, octagon-round barrels in .40 caliber that will allow me to utilize either patched balls, or grease-groove bullets on top of an over-bore-sized wool wad.

I will be looking for a rifle with an all up weight of no more than 7 pounds. The closer to 6 pounds my gunmaker can get the weight, the better. With a .40 caliber, 200-250 grain, grease-groove bullet (Accurate Molds), modeled loosely on a Lee R.E.A.L. bullet (tapered bullet, with tapered bands), such a rifle will be capable of hunting everything from squirrels to black bear.

 

[Bad Karma]

Whenever these caliber vs. caliber discussions come up as threads, the underlying truth that must be addressed from an individual hunter's perspective is, "How do I define hunting?"

Each of us has a somewhat different definition of the word "hunting", depending upon the EXACT CIRCUMSTANCES that occured as our ethics were defined by our teachers, our life's hunting circumstances, and the way WE CHOSE to ethically react to each set of circumstances as they occured when WE FOUND OURSELVES ALONE, AND REQUIRED TO REACT to a particular situation.

As any firearms enthusiast knows, the smallest calibers are capable of killing deer-sized game, IF USED WITHIN THE BALLISTIC PARAMETERS OF THE CARTRIDGE/ M-L CALIBER.

Yet, in every single thread of this type that I can recall reading, blanket statements are constantly being thrown about calibers suitable for mule deer vs. whitetail deer, .40 caliber vs. .45 caliber vs. .50 caliber vs. .54 caliber.

When I return to the hunting fields, if a shoulder-fired weapon is to be in the mix, it will HAVE TO BE a .40 caliber rifle with a wide buttplate. My steadily increasing osteoarthritis, and my PCP have dictated that any return to rifle shooting be in a very low recoiling caliber. As well as switching constantly back, and forth, from shoulder-to-shoulder to distribute the recoil as evenly as possible between both sides of my body. As well as a shooting vest with recoil absorbing pads for both shoulders.

This means that an accurate pair of range finding binoculars will HAVE TO BE PURCHASED, and utilized to determine the range, before pulling the trigger.

A custom rifled Spanish Escopeta (patilla flintlock) with one of Colerain's, gain twist rifled, 1:36" twist at the muzzle, A-weight, 38" long, American pattern, octagon-round barrels in .40 caliber that will allow me to utilize either patched balls, or grease-groove bullets on top of an over-bore-sized wool wad.

I will be looking for a rifle with an all up weight of no more than 7 pounds. The closer to 6 pounds my gunmaker can get the weight, the better. With a .40 caliber, 200-250 grain, grease-groove bullet (Accurate Molds), modeled loosely on a Lee R.E.A.L. bullet (tapered bullet, with tapered bands), such a rifle will be capable of hunting everything from squirrels to black bear.

Maybe ask Tom if he can copy Lewis’ .45-340I bullet for your .40. If I don’t beat you to the punch... I suspect it would come in around 285 grains or so and with the wide flat profile, be an absolute hammer on deer sized critters loaded about like a .40-60 Marlin. A slightly more powerful .38-55.

 

[Eterry]

We all recognize that the .45 is plenty to kill a deer under the right conditions, but I greatly prefer a .50 and then greatly prefer a .54 over that. That said, because I have a couple of .45s and like to use all of my rifles to make game, I use the .45 for big, PA whitetails. And that said, I really, really try to do so only under ideal conditions with tracking snow and I'm more inclined to seriously limit my shots if I don't have tracking snow (or sometimes even if I do). The problem that I have with your question is that I've never hunted out west and have never hunted mulies, so I don't really know what you're stuck with as far as tracking conditions. I think with a dusting of snow or other reasonable tracking conditions that the .45 is OK, but I think you'd be better served with a .50, .54 or larger. Just my opinion and we all have one.

I will be using a .45 for our late flintlock season in PA this year because I have a rifle that I recently obtained that I haven't harvested a deer with. Fortunately, we have snow on the ground and it looks like it's likely to hang around.

Tracking Snow??? I'm from Texas partner... please explain what snow is... lol.

When the stars align and the moon is in the 7th house than the 45 prb will work fine for a mule deer.
I can say that because the record USA Mule Deer was, IIRC, taken with a 32-20 carbine.

However, if the light is fading, a slight breeze is blowing, the buck of a lifetime is nervous and not standing or giving you a nice broadside presentation, then you may well wish you had a rifle running 28 balls to the pound, or more.

 

[James C. Burnette]

For going to a 40 caliber bullet, I’d check over in the black powder cartridge rifle forums. Lot of .40-65 shooters there that know a lot about bullet size,shape and what kind of load it takes for the best accuracy. I shoot ml guns as well as bpcr and the only difference is using a brass cartridge and loading from the back instead of the front.

 

[chix2111]

A .54 with the usual length and diameter barrel is lighter than a .45 with the same barrel, but a conical changes the whole picture of course when talking about killing power.
I have killed mule deer and whitetails with prb muzzleloaders and with archery equipment. I never ever needed a "finishing shot" with my bow, but I have needed one with a muzzleloader several times. I would like to hear other ml hunters experience with that.
Just saying it's better to have a little overkill than a little underkill, and if you've ever lost a nice buck, or any other animal, I'm sure you will have to agree with that.

 

[GANGGREEN]

I agree with you, lots of us do. I know that there are many on this board who claim to have never lost a deer, claim that they're all DRT, etc.. I'm not in a position to call them out and I presume that many, most or all who claim these things on this board are telling the truth, but that's not been my experience at all. I've been hunting with a flintlock rifle for more than 30 years. In that time I've killed a lot of deer with them, probably around 30, maybe a few more than that even. Sadly, of those 30, I'm guessing that at least 10 required more than minimal tracking and/or a finishing shot. And in those 30 years, there have been at least a few that were hit and never recovered. I'm surely not the best shot on this board, but I am fairly conscientious about taking a good shot and passing if it just isn't right. For these reasons, I tend to lean towards a .50 or even a .54 when deer hunting, although I will hunt with a .45 when there's tracking snow (the deer in my avatar was killed with a .45 and PRB and I went hunting yesterday with a .45, albeit for whitetails).

A .54 with the usual length and diameter barrel is lighter than a .45 with the same barrel, but a conical changes the whole picture of course when talking about killing power.
I have killed mule deer and whitetails with prb muzzleloaders and with archery equipment. I never ever needed a "finishing shot" with my bow, but I have needed one with a muzzleloader several times. I would like to hear other ml hunters experience with that.
Just saying it's better to have a little overkill than a little underkill, and if you've ever lost a nice buck, or any other animal, I'm sure you will have to agree with that.

 

[oldwood]

Personally , I don't know anyone here in central Pa. hunting w/ .45 cal. m/l for deer using PRB , and have only known one guy who killed a deer w/ a .45 w/PRB. We put a drive on for our buddy w/ the .45 ,a deer ran passed him and stood looking away from him @ 25 yds.. His only shot was at the back of the deer's head. Our buddy was an old WW2 vet and in the dark back at the truck , he double charged his .45 TC rifle w/ around 90 gr.fffg by mistake. The report the rifle expelled when he fired was stupendous. The single ball passed across the top of deer's rump cutting a 1/2 " deep trough and next embedded itself in the back of the deer's skull , where the spine connects. From then on everyone accused him of pulling a "trick" shot to secure the crumpled doe. Since trick shots w/any caliber rifle where not my thing ,I tend to compensate by using bigger caliber PRB rifles .50 and above................oldwood

 

[Gary Russell]

I use a 45 on mule deer but I am using a 409 gr bullet. I would never use a 45 PRB for mule deer.

My first muzzleloader was a Hopkins Allan underhamer 45cal I've shot lots of mule deer at 100yrds 60 grains FFF PRB was a great combination

 

[tenngun]

I think that if you were to ask a real mountain man what he thought about it, he would say something like "why in the heck would you use a .45 when you have a .54".

Although Lewis and Clark carried .54 or maybe a .49 and their .69, the rifles that went west started out as the .50 and below that, as time went on bigger rifles came to be the norm.
Today we have a lot more mulies in relation to the other westren deer. Back then lot more elk and moose well in to present day Colorado buff, antalope( more of a goat then a deer) that tended for longer range shots.
I took a few mulies, never one less then a hundred and eighty pounds, I know there are some big white tails but I’ve never taken one over one thirty and I bet 90% didn’t top a hundred

 

[flintsteel]

A .45 is fine for mule deer IF you’re an exceptionally good, steady shot. I’m not and usually the excitement and exertion of the moment plays hell with my shot placement. So, though I’ve shot plenty with a .50 I now prefer a .54 or .58 just to be sure.

 

[Bob McBride]

As said above, a well placed .45 RB within about 65 yards will through and through a deer. No problems at all. If you're a dead-eye, never miss, heartrate never gets above 65bpm like my old man you can do it just fine, as he does. He hunts deer with a .45 plains rifle and drops them time after time. All 65 yards and less. I use a .50, .54, and .58 myself and Pop's deer run no further than mine on average....

As your realtor says, "Location, location, location".

 

[longcruise]

I used to tell the fellows that if they couldn’t pack a 9# rifle maybe they should devote some time to an exercise program... the conceit of youth. Now in my golden years I know that no amount of time in the gym can compensate for the injuries, the wear and tear, the inevitable march of time... I’m 74, still hunt alone quite often, (my wife swears I’ll die out there alone... Doesn’t seem such a bad end to me.) my favorite area is almost 2-1/2 miles from the trailhead and nearly 3000’ up and these days it takes a lot longer to go in and come out. Someday that may be all I get done in a days hunt.

Long story longer, I appreciate the lighter rifles too... gotta carry them all day, only shooting once. I hope.

Im in the same boat and those climbs seem more formidable every year. From your screen name, I'm guessing we both find it much easier to do it with a stick and string.

 

[chix2111]

Trouble is, nobody always gets a a broadside, standing still shot, inside 65 yards, but that won't stop people from taking a shot. You can deride folks all day and all night, call them this and that, but it won't change a thing. It is what it is. Not good to give newbee's the idea that a .45 patched round ball going slingshot velocity is a deadly killing machine cause it just isn't, even in the hands of an experienced hunter.

As said above, a well placed .45 RB within about 65 yards will through and through a deer. No problems at all. If you're a dead-eye, never miss, heartrate never gets above 65bpm like my old man you can do it just fine, as he does. He hunts deer with a .45 plains rifle and drops them time after time. All 65 yards and less. I use a .50, .54, and .58 myself and Pop's deer run no further than mine on average....

As your realtor says, "Location, location, location".

 

[GANGGREEN]

I actually agree with you and have posted on this forum multiple times that a .45 is for experts and that I much prefer a .50 or a .54, but in fairness, your suggestion that a .45 PRB only goes at "slingshot velocity" just isn't fair. I'm hunting with my .45 flintlock and PRB in PA this week for deer partly because we have good tracking snow and partly because one of my .45s is the only gun I've got which I haven't harvested a deer with. I suspect that my load (75 grains of FFFg, a .445 ball and .015 lubed patch) is likely giving me 2100 feet per second, which isn't bad and likely much faster than most guys are getting with their .50s and .54s. Again, I agree with you, but we need to be honest about it......

Trouble is, nobody always gets a a broadside, standing still shot, inside 65 yards, but that won't stop people from taking a shot. You can deride folks all day and all night, call them this and that, but it won't change a thing. It is what it is. Not good to give newbee's the idea that a .45 patched round ball going slingshot velocity is a deadly killing machine cause it just isn't, even in the hands of an experienced hunter.

 

[Bob McBride]

Trouble is, nobody always gets a a broadside, standing still shot, inside 65 yards, but that won't stop people from taking a shot. You can deride folks all day and all night, call them this and that, but it won't change a thing. It is what it is. Not good to give newbee's the idea that a .45 patched round ball going slingshot velocity is a deadly killing machine cause it just isn't, even in the hands of an experienced hunter.

Ok, first, I do respect your position. And to clarify, more is usually better and don't take a shot if you don't have a shot or can't make the shot. That said, 1700-2100fps is plenty of velocity with the mass of a .45 RB within 65y. Missing the clockwork with a .45 is little different than missing with a .50. Pop shot two this morning (posted in a thread in the hunting sub) with his .45/70g2f, which is all he hunts deer with. Both through and through. His deer run no farther than they do when I hit them with my .58, which is what I hunt deer with. I have field dressed probably 100 deer shot with a .45 and trust me they're identical inside to one shot with a .50.

That said, I agree with Gangreen, and don't suggest a .45 beyond 65y as there are much better choices, but choices should be made by individuals who have been given good information, and shooting a .45prb at 2k fps is not comparable to shooting one from a wrist rocket.

 

[azmntman]

Truly all shot placement, .45 or .58 bad shot, LOOOONG track and maybe no deer. .45 or ,58 good shot, dead dear. WILL TO LIVE means something. Antelope will die easy in most instances. Small to medium deer and small cow elk too. However if you have hunted alot and have alot of time helping others you will soon learn an elk can go 1/4 mile with about no blood left to track. Buddys dad (detective for G&F) hit a cow with an arrow, double lung at a waterhole. As she started to wobble a "van of hippies" arrived and said elk went 1/4 mile with not much blood at all, though she had bled profusely and coughed blood before hippie show and tell. Hit a big bull elk n the boiler room with a .58 PRB, conical or a .338 win mag and it can drop there or run hundreds of yards, some times with no blood trail. If yer a good hunter (can hit an animal that dont know yer there is best) a .45 PRB is likely all ya need. But since I once shot a 30 inch mulie in the liver with a .243 and had to track an shoot for another hour you'll find me carrying a .54 most days. Once shot a trotting buck at 180 yds with a .45 conical (in young dumb days). We tracked said buck 4.9 miles as the crow flies and into another unit before I crept up on it and shot it again in the arse (first hit a lil low and back and nicked the liver enough to bleed a bit for tracking then circled till we jumped him again).

Ya know, to me its about the animal. I watched a stupid youtube showing a he-man killing black bear with a blow gun. Horrible. Suffered bad. He man needs an ass beating in my book. .45 prb for smaller deer is good. .54 is MUCH better, ya aint gonna hurt anymore meat. This years deer I shot with a .50. This deer would have been taken easy with a .36 per circumstances of being the second smallest legal buck I ever even saw and being 35 yards away and not knowing he was dinner. But if MR BIG showed up I wanted the lil bit better of an edge.

All an opinion folks, like it said above folks will do what folks will do anyways??