Big deer and the .45 in hardcast

[Nuthatch]

I'm looking for some experience on .45 roundball that is hardcast and used on bigger critters than your average whitetail. Bottom line, I like Kibler's SMR but .45 is as big as it gets. Out here, 1 year-old mulie bucks run about 150 lb on the hoof and the mature bucks can easily push past 200 lb. To complicate things, we have to use lead-free projectiles so that means bismuth alloy, which is the equivalent of hardcast lead in performance (all penetration, no expansion). So I'm curious to know if anybody here has used hardcast roundball in .45 on larger deer and how they would evaluate the terminal performance at distances under 100 yards.

I'm not as interested in charts, graphs and energy figures. CA regs are what they are so I'm not going to get into that either. But if you have first-hand experience with hardcast .45 round ball, I'd love to hear from you.

 

[64Springer]

You don't need Hard Cast bullets/balls. As true Hard Cast is in the 20 BHN range.

You can get away with something close to Lyman #2. Which is 90 Lead, 5 Antimony and 5 Tin.

Get some tire shop CLIP-ON wheel weights, add 2% tin for mold fill-out, and go hunting.

That'll get you close to Lyman specs without having to go all scientifically anal on your mix.

Around 96 Lead, 2 Antimony and 2 Tin. Any more than 2% tin is a waste just for a ball.


Stand by and you'll soon hear how wheel weights will destroy your rifling and cause wild inaccuracies in your shooting.

But trust me. If those guys in Texas had access to wheel weights, the Alamo would not have fallen.


PS: Disregard everything I said. I just noticed you live in a re#@rded state that hates guns and real bullets. I'll leave the post up for folks that don't live in a re#@rded gun hating and lead hating state. Which are getting fewer and fewer as the days go by. I won't say which party is to blame because this isn't the Politics Forum.

PPS: How much does a .45 lead ball weigh? How much does a .45 bismuth ball weigh? If the bismuth ball weighs less, it won't have the same penetrating kinetic energy as a lead ball. Which means letting the deer get closer before killing, yes, killing it.

 

[Spikebuck]

Nuthatch, you might want to strike up a PM with Skychief. He has taken absolute monster Indiana bucks with a .45 PRB and can give you pros and cons. I don't believe he used "hard cast" but his experience may give you some very good insight on the .45 on very large bodied deer.

Your requirement for a non-lead projectile will most likely mean less performance than he achieved. IIRC, while terminal, several of his bucks left virtually no blood trail. Having two holes would be beneficial for sure.

 

[Nuthatch]

Nuthatch, you might want to strike up a PM with Skychief. He has taken absolute monster Indiana bucks with a .45 PRB and can give you pros and cons. I don't believe he used "hard cast" but his experience may give you some very good insight on the .45 on very large bodied deer.

Your requirement for a non-lead projectile will most likely mean less performance than he achieved. IIRC, while terminal, several of his bucks left virtually no blood trail. Having two holes would be beneficial for sure.

I have zero doubts about using a .45 for deer of any size if soft lead is used. I'm only interested to see who has experience using hard cast, wheel weight or similar non-expanding/non-flattening round balls on larger deer, like mule deer or large whitetails. It's a niche, to be sure. We're the only state that requires non-lead projectiles for muzzleloaders. It's dumb but it is what it is. I don't expect that anybody else on this forum has used lead free .45 round ball but, since hard cast lead performs the same, I figure there may be somebody who has used wheel weight lead or something similarly hard & non-expanding to give me a baseline for what I could expect. It's worth an ask, though. Thanks.

I've had only 1 experience thus far with a .50 (.480) Bi alloy ball on a small blacktail but wouldn't hesitate to use it again on deer of any size. But the .45 is a bit smaller.

 

[Rancocas]

Well, I shoot a .50, not a .45, but I do use round balls cast from wheel weights. All of the broadside shots I've had at deer have passed all the way through and so were not recovered. However, on one occasion I made a quartering shot on a good whitetail buck from about 50 yards. I hit it just behind the last rib on the left side. The ball continued through the entire length of the deer's body and lodged under the hide in it's neck. I recovered that ball and noted that except for a small flat spot where the ball had apparently clipped a bone, it was largely undeformed.
Of course, a .50 (.490) ball creates a 1/2 inch hole. I think a .45 ball will make a .45 hole, regardless of whether it is made of lead, bismuth, or gold, just so long as it has the speed and energy to get the job done.
Shot placement! Shot placement! Shot placement!

You might try a little experiment. Set up a 2x6 pine board and shoot it. If the ball passes completely through, then I think it should work on deer. Try it at different ranges; when the ball no longer passes through, keep your hunting ranges at less than that.

Meanwhile, get busy, get rid of your commie legislators, and turn your state back into the promised land that it once was.

 

[JJohnson2023]

I have an idea that I haven't tried but I've thought of, what about a round ball made from hevi-13 or TSS? That may be difficult to make on your own, but it would theoretically out perform lead, and satisfy your non-toxic requirement.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I use WW lead, 45 cal at 2033fps, it blows thru any critter Ive shot at.

 

[stikshooter]

I use WW lead, 45 cal at 2033fps, it blows thru any critter Ive shot at.

Great but the OP lives in a commi state , probably cant use WW in lead there either ! Ed

 

[Skychief]

Good morning Nuthatch!

I got your PM and thought I'd answer here.

As Spikebuck mentioned, I've killed some heavy whitetail bucks and doe with the .45. Mostly with dead soft prb's.

That said, there were a few years that I cast, and hunted with super hard wheel weight type balls. I took a number of doe with them but no bucks as the opportunity never arrived. The hard balls worked fine. Accuracy was excellent and penetration was incredible. I specifically recall taking an old nanny which likely weighed 150-160# field dressed. She was quartered hard toward me and 75 yards away. The ball took her through a front shoulder, exiting a rear ham, breaking the back leg and whizzing out for parts unknown. She went about a hundred yards with a decent blood trail like others.

The bigger bucks I've taken with the .45 and dead soft prb out to 75-ish yards have died quickly and left good sign except for one.....

A few years ago I needed to use a lighter charge, due to recovering from retina surgery. I took a large, wide buck with a quartering to shot and the ball did not exit. He left no blood trail but was quite dead within 100 yards.

I hope this may help you in your situation.

Good hunting, Skychief.

PS to say that the .45 is all I deer hunt with now (having used it, 50's, 54's, and 62's) as its proven itself time and again. I'd get a Kibler rifle and get the grease hot.....

 

[Nuthatch]

That said, there were a few years that I cast, and hunted with super hard wheel weight type balls. I took a number of doe with them but no bucks as the opportunity never arrived. The hard balls worked fine. Accuracy was excellent and penetration was incredible. I specifically recall taking an old nanny which likely weighed 150-160# field dressed. She was quartered hard toward me and 75 yards away. The ball took her through a front shoulder, exiting a rear ham, breaking the back leg and whizzing out for parts unknown. She went about a hundred yards with a decent blood trail like others.
.

Thank you. That's the kind of experiences I was looking to read about. Much appreciated.

 

[Nuthatch]

I have an idea that I haven't tried but I've thought of, what about a round ball made from hevi-13 or TSS? That may be difficult to make on your own, but it would theoretically out perform lead, and satisfy your non-toxic requirement.

I've shot ITX (an iron/tungsten matrix, similar to TSS but slightly less dense than lead), though I haven't hunted with it. It's incredibly hard, strong and very accurate. I've dug them out of the dirt with barely a scratch on them. All will shoot to the same POI out to 100 yards. I still prefer Bi alloy since I can make it myself, re-melt recovered balls & it's about half the cost. Bi alloy is also safer, in my opinion. I hunt areas that are very rocky. Bi alloy will shatter when struck. In fact, Bi alloy ball looks almost identical to lead. But when you strike it with a hammer, the Bi alloy ball will crack or break while lead will deform. ITX will probably put a dent in your anvil. The risks of a bad ricochet go way up with ITX, I feel. Maybe I'm a little overly concerned but when there are safer alternatives that are also cheaper & easier to get, I figure it's not worth the risk.

 

[bigted]

Good morning Nuthatch!

I got your PM and thought I'd answer here.

As Spikebuck mentioned, I've killed some heavy whitetail bucks and doe with the .45. Mostly with dead soft prb's.

That said, there were a few years that I cast, and hunted with super hard wheel weight type balls. I took a number of doe with them but no bucks as the opportunity never arrived. The hard balls worked fine. Accuracy was excellent and penetration was incredible. I specifically recall taking an old nanny which likely weighed 150-160# field dressed. She was quartered hard toward me and 75 yards away. The ball took her through a front shoulder, exiting a rear ham, breaking the back leg and whizzing out for parts unknown. She went about a hundred yards with a decent blood trail like others.

The bigger bucks I've taken with the .45 and dead soft prb out to 75-ish yards have died quickly and left good sign except for one.....

A few years ago I needed to use a lighter charge, due to recovering from retina surgery. I took a large, wide buck with a quartering to shot and the ball did not exit. He left no blood trail but was quite dead within 100 yards.

I hope this may help you in your situation.

Good hunting, Skychief.

PS to say that the .45 is all I deer hunt with now (having used it, 50's, 54's, and 62's) as its proven itself time and again. I'd get a Kibler rifle and get the grease hot.....

Dang eye surgery anyway. Just had retina surgery myself ( now have had on both eyes) and wondered about shooting my larger calibre front stuffers.

The Grease HOT???

 

[Nor'Easter]

"The Grease HOT???"

I'm guessing to cook up some fresh tenderloins. Yum!

 

[TTT]

I've read on this in another discussion. this is a post from someone using Brass or copper roundballs in Cal.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...tid/295766/post/1499191/fromsearch/1/#1499191

 

[#blackpowderbill]

Food grade pewter will work as a hard RB in commiefornIA

 

[BillinOregon]

I read the 2015 thread that TTT linked to. Overlooking some of the childish acrimony, I found it interesting.
One would think by now that somewhere there would be a body of experience and counsel that could be tapped regarding all the various alternatives to round lead balls; copper, bismuth, brass, pewter, zinc, tin, Babbitt metal, etc. Obviously some of these would have to be machined rather than cast.