Quanicassee
32 Cal
I have a 1849 Springfield Shotgun that looks original but I can't find anything about it. 33 inch smooth bore barrel that measures about .070 at the muzzle. Has a musket cap nipple in it. Where can I find more about this gun?
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1849 Springfield Shotgun
- Thread starter Quanicassee
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Welcome from East TN
CaptainKirk
54 Cal.
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Welcome, even if I can't answer your question!
Do a search on "Civil War foraging guns". I don't know how the troops liked them as shotguns, but hated them as rifles.
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Welcome from Texas! I'm sure you'll find your answers.
Greetings, and welcome from Florida!
The gun you have started life as a Model 1842 Springfield musket, which I believe was the last smoothbore as well as the first percussion smoothbore issued to the US military. The 1849 date on the lockplate is the date of manufacture. These continued in use even into the War Between the States. According to Coates & Thomas' An Introduction to Civil War Small Arms, about 250,000 (another source stated 275,000) of these were produced between 1843 or 1844 and 1855 at Springfield and Harper's Ferry, and it was the standard arm of the US Infantry until 1855. Your gun was originally a fullstock with a 42" barrel, three barrel bands, and the front sight integral with the band nearest the muzzle. In its original smoothbore configuration, there would have been no rear sight, although some of these old warriors were optimistically rifled and fitted with rear sights for the War of '61. This was an experiment that did not really work very well.
After that war, there were thousands of surplus arms sold to the civilian market, and a number of them were "sporterized," like yours. The original 42" barrel was shortened, and the stock was cut back just ahead of the lower barrel band. Usually, a bead sight was added and sometimes a ramrod ferrule was soldered to the underside of the barrel near the muzzle. This was also done to many of the surplus .58 caliber rifle muskets, which were reamed smooth. Your .69 caliber musket was aready a smoothbore. These were very popular and useful guns in their day, and there are still a lot of them out there. As noted in a post above, people now frequently call them "foragers," but as far as I know the muzzleloading .58 and .69 caliber Springfiled and Harper's Ferry guns were not issued in this cut-down configuration. I'm pretty sure these are all civilian alterations.
The NRA has a nice, short article about the Model of 1842 online: This Old Gun: US Model of 1842 I don't think they say anything about the civilian modified guns, though.
I don't think your gun is really worth a great deal on the market. Most of these "foragers" that you see are modified .58 caliber guns, and I think the '42's may be a little less common, but I would be surprised if you would get more than $500 for it, even if it is shootable. Maybe up to $650 if you find the right buyer.
From the photos, your gun looks like it is in pretty good condition. If you are not familiar with muzzleloaders, have a competent gunsmith check it out for "shootability." If it is deemed safe to shoot, you have some good times ahead of you. You'll have a smoothbore capable of handling shot or ball that is sturdy, nimble, and easy to maintain.
Be safe, and have fun with it!
Notchy Bob
The gun you have started life as a Model 1842 Springfield musket, which I believe was the last smoothbore as well as the first percussion smoothbore issued to the US military. The 1849 date on the lockplate is the date of manufacture. These continued in use even into the War Between the States. According to Coates & Thomas' An Introduction to Civil War Small Arms, about 250,000 (another source stated 275,000) of these were produced between 1843 or 1844 and 1855 at Springfield and Harper's Ferry, and it was the standard arm of the US Infantry until 1855. Your gun was originally a fullstock with a 42" barrel, three barrel bands, and the front sight integral with the band nearest the muzzle. In its original smoothbore configuration, there would have been no rear sight, although some of these old warriors were optimistically rifled and fitted with rear sights for the War of '61. This was an experiment that did not really work very well.
After that war, there were thousands of surplus arms sold to the civilian market, and a number of them were "sporterized," like yours. The original 42" barrel was shortened, and the stock was cut back just ahead of the lower barrel band. Usually, a bead sight was added and sometimes a ramrod ferrule was soldered to the underside of the barrel near the muzzle. This was also done to many of the surplus .58 caliber rifle muskets, which were reamed smooth. Your .69 caliber musket was aready a smoothbore. These were very popular and useful guns in their day, and there are still a lot of them out there. As noted in a post above, people now frequently call them "foragers," but as far as I know the muzzleloading .58 and .69 caliber Springfiled and Harper's Ferry guns were not issued in this cut-down configuration. I'm pretty sure these are all civilian alterations.
The NRA has a nice, short article about the Model of 1842 online: This Old Gun: US Model of 1842 I don't think they say anything about the civilian modified guns, though.
I don't think your gun is really worth a great deal on the market. Most of these "foragers" that you see are modified .58 caliber guns, and I think the '42's may be a little less common, but I would be surprised if you would get more than $500 for it, even if it is shootable. Maybe up to $650 if you find the right buyer.
From the photos, your gun looks like it is in pretty good condition. If you are not familiar with muzzleloaders, have a competent gunsmith check it out for "shootability." If it is deemed safe to shoot, you have some good times ahead of you. You'll have a smoothbore capable of handling shot or ball that is sturdy, nimble, and easy to maintain.
Be safe, and have fun with it!
Notchy Bob
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Welcome from New York State's Central-Leatherstocking region.
Clark Badgett
40 Cal
Notchy Bob nailed.
Your forager appears to be in very nice condition; congratulations on owning it.
I believe it was Wayne Austerman who wrote an article, "Old '42 and the Fortunes of War," about its use in the Civil War. This was in one of the late-lamented Dixie Gun Works Black Powder annuals. I'd look it up and scan it for you, but I foolishly sold my collection of the annuals a few years ago. Wonderful reading!
I believe it was Wayne Austerman who wrote an article, "Old '42 and the Fortunes of War," about its use in the Civil War. This was in one of the late-lamented Dixie Gun Works Black Powder annuals. I'd look it up and scan it for you, but I foolishly sold my collection of the annuals a few years ago. Wonderful reading!
Good information, Bill!
I’m not sure that I have all of them, but I do have a number of those Dixie annuals, and would agree that they were nicely done. I had forgotten about that specific article, but I’ll try to look it up.
My annuals are currently packed away. I’ll dig ‘em out at the first opportunity, which usually means some time when the Lady of the House is away. It’s just easier that way, not having to deal with questions and “While you’re at it…” suggestions.
Notchy Bob
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Welcome from California.
Clark Badgett
40 Cal
This gun is not a forager. It’s a post war sporterization for civil sales. The surplus dealers of the era bought every surplussed arm the government released and sold them all as cheap shotguns to poor immigrants heading west. Some were cut down others weren’t.
BuffaloSoldier
40 Cal
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Welcome from SE Missouri, we all learn something every day.
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The 33" long rifled barrels were as demanded by Fremont for his troops.
He got what he wanted and they were the best handling .69's issued.
A smooth bore version with 33" barrel has to be a fine piece.
He got what he wanted and they were the best handling .69's issued.
A smooth bore version with 33" barrel has to be a fine piece.
Indians liked them, too:
The Fremont rifles are legendary, but known examples are pretty scarce. We discussed these here on the forum not too long ago: "The .69 Bore 1847 "Fremont"
More recently, we discussed the guns carried on Fremont's third (1845-1846) expedition: Hawken Rifles on Fremont's Third Expedition . The M1842 "Fremont" model came up in that discussion, but I don't think there was any evidence that any of these were carried on the expedition.
It is generally believed that the rifled 1842 rifles were intended for .69 caliber Minie bullets, which were invented in France in 1847, but did not really catch on here until James H. Burton refined the design in 1855. Fremont's last expedition was in 1853. However, unsubstantiated information I have read indicated that the Fremont M1842 rifles had deeper grooves than those of the Civil War era, suggesting they were intended for patched round balls rather than bullets. This sounds plausible, but until we get some corroboration I would not consider it factual.
During the Civil War, Fremont was given command for the Department of the West for a short time, but he was relieved of his command before the war progressed very far. I suppose it may be possible that the "Fremont" rifles were ordered during the Civil War. There is a lot of mystery around these rifles, and much could be said about the M1842 and its variants. Thanks for bringing the topic of Fremont rifles up!
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
