1750 period rifle

[Comfortably_Numb]

OK for the next question, and again I am not in the market for a rifle, I am thinking about newbies to the sport.

Is there any production rifles, Pedersoli, Traditions etc. that could get a guy by for a couple of years while he saved up for a custom.

Something that maybe with a little sanding and refinishing would look OK from say ten feet away?

Nope.

 

[Boatncamp]

Cooper actually gives a pretty fair description in the Deer Slayer.

While far more contemporary than any of us, Cooper was born 1789 and Pathfinder was written 1840. I would have to think that he could have been influenced by "more modern firearms"

 

[54ball]

While far more contemporary than any of us, Cooper was born 1789 and Pathfinder was written 1840. I would have to think that he could have been influenced by "more modern firearms"

Have you read the description in the Deerslayer?
The rifle is kind of a mystery. It belonged to a sea faring man. One can guess that’s it’s European of origin.
Yes I know of Cooper and the time he lived yet the description is very good. Maybe it was accidental but the description is still good IMHO.

 

[Boatncamp]

Yes, I have read it but not in the last few decades. The Deerslayer is my favorite of Cooper's Leatherstocking Tales as it takes place on "the Glimmerglass" which is Otsego Lake about 30 minutes from my house. Grew up swimming and boating on the lake, often anchoring at the sunken island area to swim.

 

[Jay Templin]

So....

A guy wants to do 1750's period reenacting but NOT as a soldier or militia member.

He has limited funds say under $1800.00 and wants a rifle correct as possible for the time period and wants to hunt with it as well.

I would be interested in what Dave Person, LRB, Mike Brooks and others would advise, just for the sake of spirited conversation.

This is for conversation, I have plenty of flintlocks that cover my preferred period of interest.

Here in Virginia, if he’s not a member of the militia in the 1750s, he’s either forbidden to own a gun by law (enslaved, indentured, Catholic…), forbidden to serve by religion (Quaker), or exempt from service. If exempt, he’s either a miller, baker, or involved in iron production (furnaceman, miner, etc) and any plain rifle is fine. Or he’s a politician, and a fine English sporting rifle is the thing. But if he’s east of Richmond, a fowling piece is more likely.
Other colonies will vary.
Jay

 

[lexington1]

I have an affinity for German guns, particularly imported ones that are like long barreled Jaegers. I have seen a few references to German rifles being imported, but the merchant requesting longer barrels being as that is what the locals wanted. I guess in my mind a 1750's American rifle would be somewhat difficult to tell whether it was German made or from a gun stocker fresh off the boat. With your budget in mind, I would guess that you would have to build one or maybe find a bargain. This is a German rifle that has 6 inches stretched to it, but without the addition is still around a 42" barrel. Anyway, this is kind of what comes to my mind.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

OK for the next question, and again I am not in the market for a rifle, I am thinking about newbies to the sport.

Is there any production rifles, Pedersoli, Traditions etc. that could get a guy by for a couple of years while he saved up for a custom.

Something that maybe with a little sanding and refinishing would look OK from say ten feet away?

You know, most flintlocks would do OK for reenactments until you can get a better one. I had purchased the Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle in the early 2000's (had a longer barrel than it does now). Nobody gave me grief about it except the fellow in our group who was a gun builder himself, and then he only told me once and told me why it was a post-war rifle not a pre-war or Rev War rifle. It has way too much decoration on it! That all came later after the war when the demand for longrifles dropped. Those longrifles from about the 1790's through 1820 or so are known as "Golden Age" rifles because they are some of the best looking rifles ever made. You did see a lot of brass decor like hunting stars on the cheekpiece, weeping hearts around the wrist and more hunting stars along the forearm.

Early rifles typically had 1½' to 2" wide buttplates that had very little curve to them; no patchbox at all, a wooden sliding box, or simple brass panel patchboxes; stocks were wider at the wrist than they are tall; had incise carving with very early rifles and rococo relief carving with later rifles; had anywhere from short barrels up to really long barrels (Capt. John Warner of Herrick's Green Mountain Rangers had a 7-ft long rifle that he hunted with). Barrels were either left "in the white" and just oiled and allowed to develop a patina, or were charcoal-fire blued, which produced a more vibrant color than cold bluing does (it's fine to use a modern blued barrel). the Brown finish you often see didn't come about until after the Rev War. Roger's Rangers in the F&I War did brown theirs, but British troops had to keep their musket barrels shined brightly - they wanted you to see them coming and be intimidated by it. About the only decor on an early rifle would be a thumb-rest on top of the stock right behind the tang of the barrel or behind the carving behind the tang, and that was typically for a presentation rifle, presented to someone to commemorate a special occasion.

So simple is good, and fancy is not a common early longrifle. Pedersoli has some as does Traditions. Cabela's sold the Pedersoli Blue Ridge rifle for not a lot, but I don't see it anymore. Nor do I see it on Pedersoli's website. Just stay away from heavily decorated. Prices on these guys are not cheap anymore though. When I got my Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle back in the early 2000's it was on sale for $420. It will now run you $900 to $1,000 and it only has a 33½ barrel whereas mine is 40¼" long. The Traditions "Kentucky Rifle" would be a better and cheaper choice ($560 to $590). Both Traditions and Pedersoli use walnut for the stock. That is a "premium wood", but very few if any American Longrifles were made from it. They were typically made out of hard maple and the best ones were heavily figured.

Below is a shot of the Traditions Kentucky Longrifle. It has a two piece stock, which is not the most desirable thing but still OK, and much more believable for an early longrifle. the crescent on the buttplate is not a early longrifle feature but fine for Rev War and no one is going to give you a hard time at a reenactment with it anyhow.

Here's a picture of the Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle. There were no adjustable sights back in the 1700's of course. Both of these rifles are actually the same overall length of 49".

The picture below is of my own Early Lancaster Flintlock Rifle that was built by a member of the Muzzleloading Forum here who went by the screenname of "tg". It's a beautiful piece of work that is very finely made. It only uses incise carving and there is no patchbox on it but rather just a beautiful piece of highly figured maple. It has an L&R Queen Anne lock which was a style available from about 1620 through the start of the Revolutionary War. Britain forbade the colonies from making locks so they exported locks to the colonies by the barrelful. The barrel is a 44½"╜ long swamped barrel and overall length is 60" (5-feet). It also weighs about 2-lbs less than my Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle. Sorry about the lighting on this. Couldn't get the flash to go off on my phone and we don't have the best lighting where it is. If I recall correctly I paid $1,150 for it back in 2005 or 2006. The Swamped barrel on it makes it much easier to carry, swing, and hold on target because the balance of the rifle ends up right in my left hand where I hold onto the stock when aiming (just about directly under the rear sight). The production guns on the other hand are straight or straight-tapered barrels and are very nose heavy.

Hope that helps,
Twisted_1in66

 

[Josh Canuck]

Not to hijack the thread but I was wondering IF anyone would know what type of rifles the common farmer would have used during the capture of Québec by general Wolf in 1759 (The battle for the plains of Abraham). I doubt they would have been issued military firearms by Montcalm but who knows?

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Not to hijack the thread but I was wondering IF anyone would know what type of rifles the common farmer would have used during the capture of Québec by general Wolf in 1759 (The battle for the plains of Abraham). I doubt they would have been issued military firearms by Montcalm but who knows?

Probably all fowling guns, either imported or domestically made.

 

[Josh Canuck]

Thanks for such a prompt answer.

 

[Brokennock]

Not to hijack the thread but I was wondering IF anyone would know what type of rifles the common farmer would have used during the capture of Québec by general Wolf in 1759 (The battle for the plains of Abraham). I doubt they would have been issued military firearms by Montcalm but who knows?

There is a book with a very long title that was written by someone who was there. He was one of the ones who was tasked to go by land and river through the wilds of Maine to get there. His unit had rifles, but, they had come to New England from the south.

It's actually a really good book.
Unfortunately for this topic, he does not go into a lot of detail about their arms, but, there is a lot of other relevant material culture reference.

 

[Brokennock]

Not to hijack the thread but I was wondering IF anyone would know what type of rifles the common farmer would have used during the capture of Québec by general Wolf in 1759 (The battle for the plains of Abraham). I doubt they would have been issued military firearms by Montcalm but who knows?

Oh, and also,,,,, despite all their travel by small boats and canoes,,,, there is not one mention of "canoe guns" or a desire for one, or of anyone cutting their gun down to be more handy

 

[ETipp]

I have this, jeager influenced but a lot of available English parts incorporated. 62 cal rifle with a 28 inch swamped octagon barrel.

Beautiful rifle. Some of those older looking flintlocks are simply amazing. And IMO they don’t have to be a show rifle to be beautiful.

Their designs and lines are so unique.

My “want bumps” are itching.