1750 period rifle

[French Colonial]

So....

A guy wants to do 1750's period reenacting but NOT as a soldier or militia member.

He has limited funds say under $1800.00 and wants a rifle correct as possible for the time period and wants to hunt with it as well.

I would be interested in what Dave Person, LRB, Mike Brooks and others would advise, just for the sake of spirited conversation.

This is for conversation, I have plenty of flintlocks that cover my preferred period of interest.

 

[Commodore Swab]

So....

A guy wants to do 1750's period reenacting but NOT as a soldier or militia member.

He has limited funds say under $1800.00 and wants a rifle correct as possible for the time period and wants to hunt with it as well.

I would be interested in what Dave Person, LRB, Mike Brooks and others would advise, just for the sake of spirited conversation.

I have this, jeager influenced but a lot of available English parts incorporated. 62 cal rifle with a 28 inch swamped octagon barrel.

 

[rchas]

We have the time period, now where is the persona from? A New England persona is historically not going to be using a rifle. Neither is a persona from a more settled area. If a rifle is a necessity, then the "guy"'s persona is going to have to be crafted to reflect a part of the colonies where there was, presumably, a rifle culture.

As for appearance: wide butt, wooden patchbox cover, wide trigger guard with the bar standing well away from the stock, very likely a stepped wrist, at least .50 if not larger, and an overall Germanic appearance.

 

[rich pierce]

Build the Chambers Marshall rifle kit. In my view the best option for that price range. Can’t get a build from a blank at that price.

The Gentleman's English Sporting rifle from Chambers is probably too fancy unless a Southern plantation owner.

The Mark Silver kit by Chambers would work also.

 

[Art Caputo]

Perhaps the Kibler Colonial could serve as a good platform. It has many of pre-Revolutionary War attributes.

 

[Brokennock]

I feel like this same subject is getting pounded on for the last few days in another part of the forum.

@rchas makes a good point that a location during that time period could/would make a big difference in what the individual could or would buy for a gun. Not to mention said individual's economic status.

Didn't take long for the Kibler panacea to show up.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

We have no idea what a 1750 rifle in North America looked like. I have read documentation as far back as the 1740's that the indians preferred rifles, but we don't know exactly what they looked like. Rich Pierce's advice is good.
A germanic rifle is a good choice too.

 

[Cayman like]

I feel like this same subject is getting pounded on for the last few days in another part of the forum.

@rchas makes a good point that a location during that time period could/would make a big difference in what the individual could or would buy for a gun. Not to mention said individual's economic status.

Didn't take long for the Kibler panacea to show up.

Saint Kibler.

 

[Mulebrain]

A gun of the time period for a comparison. This advice above is sound, and the Marshall would be best I think. The Kibler Colonial would however be easier to build.

 

[LongWalker]

The Gentleman's English Sporting rifle from Chambers is probably too fancy unless a Southern plantation owner

In my notes I have 3) pre-1740 mentions of rifles used in what are now Florida, Alabama, and Louisiana. All were owned by traders, and were described as English rifles or being from England. Something along the lines of an earlier version of the English rifle Gary Brumfield posted long ago on ALR might be appropriate.

 

[Rob M.]

Look up Martin Mylin and John Schreit rifle ...lots of pics of Johns rifle ... will be something very similar to it

 

[Brokennock]

The Chambers Smoothrifle seems like a good choice to me. I'm sure a rifled barrel could be obtained for it.
It seems somewhat reminiscent of the rifle I posted in the other thread about F&I era rifles.

 

[sdfdgfh]

It is a nice gun and thank you for posting it. I've seen examples of the the top breech plug English rifles that go back to the 17th century. If you add bottom loading breech loaders, I've seen more early 18th century English breech loading rifles than muzzle loading examples. On your example, the trigger guard, checkering, and lock are from the very late 1760s and more likely the 1770s. For example, the guard has an acorn finial, the coarse checkering is right out of the 1770s or later, the lock has a short sear spring. Surely, you know those features are not from the 1750s. The feather spring must be a replacement because I cannot believe a quality British gun maker would make one like that. It is an interesting rifle but it has no clean 1750s provenance.

 

[Togo]

The Kibler Woodsrunner and Colonial rifle designs put them in the 1760's

 

[French Colonial]

OK for the next question, and again I am not in the market for a rifle, I am thinking about newbies to the sport.

Is there any production rifles, Pedersoli, Traditions etc. that could get a guy by for a couple of years while he saved up for a custom.

Something that maybe with a little sanding and refinishing would look OK from say ten feet away?

 

[dave_person]

Hi FC,
Others have offered as good advice as anyone can. As Mike wrote, we don't have any surviving rifles positively dated to that period although I am suspect a few surviving guns come close, they just are not dated. We know from several bits of documentation that short barreled English rifles were used as early as the 1740s. We also know Caspar Wister imported longer German rifle barrels into Pennsylvania during the 1730s and also imported components like set triggers. I am going to make a very crude generalization but one I suspect is close to the mark. During the first half of the 18th century, if the colony had well defined communities of German immigrants, they made or imported longer barreled Germanic rifles. If those communities were absent, rifles, if they existed at all, would be shorter barreled English styles. I think I would make an early Reading style rifle modeled after RCA 19, 20, and 21. Those are simple guns and you could make one within your budget. The other rifles mentioned would also be appropriate at least as far as we can speculate what a 1750s rifle would be.

dave

 

[Capt. Jas.]

OK for the next question, and again I am not in the market for a rifle, I am thinking about newbies to the sport.

Is there any production rifles, Pedersoli, Traditions etc. that could get a guy by for a couple of years while he saved up for a custom.

Something that maybe with a little sanding and refinishing would look OK from say ten feet away?

Yes, the Kibler Woodsrunner. It has a quality lock and barrel and the hard part is done as it comes to you. When and if the person moves to something else, they still have a best quality kit. The other flintlocks you mention come with more problems and frustrations and a much smaller sales market if one wants to move it.

 

[54ball]

So....

A guy wants to do 1750's period reenacting but NOT as a soldier or militia member.

He has limited funds say under $1800.00 and wants a rifle correct as possible for the time period and wants to hunt with it as well.

I would be interested in what Dave Person, LRB, Mike Brooks and others would advise, just for the sake of spirited conversation.

Cooper actually gives a pretty fair description in the Deer Slayer.

Such a rifle ; although “credible and likely”, right now and probably for the foreseeable future is a work of fiction much like Hawkeye’s Killdeer.

A rifle like this was built for the 1992 LOTM movie. It was short rifle matching the Killdeer from the Deerslayer. Mann felt like it did not fit the part and had another rifle made that looks kinda sort of like a 1800 Lehigh Valley gun. The second rifle became the famous movie rifle that Lewis carried.

LOTM lore says that Mann liked the first rifle so much he kept it.

In short we know that there were rifles in this period. With that said any modern day made gun will be a work of fiction.

 

[smo]

So....

A guy wants to do 1750's period reenacting but NOT as a soldier or militia member.

He has limited funds say under $1800.00 and wants a rifle correct as possible for the time period and wants to hunt with it as well.

That was the exact same thing I ask for when I bought my rifle…
And was told much the same as the responses above…Basically it’s up to the builders interpretation…

Here’s what my Builder interpreted..

Correct or not, I’m well pleased with it..

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

The Kibler Woodsrunner and Colonial rifle designs put them in the 1760's

1770s.