Maximum speed with Black powder

I searched and couldn't find an answer. Does anyone know what the maximum speed can be achieved using Black powder? Regardless of caliber and size of the load. I've heard it doesn't go above 2,000fps, but I've heard of up to 3,000fps. Does anyone have any information?

The fastest black powder cartridge that I am aware of was the 450/400-3 1/4" BPE(black powder express) from back in the 1870's. It was the only one to get to 2000 fps, if I recall correctly, & was used as a dangerous game cartridge up until smokeless powder was introduced. Muzzle loaders can't get anywhere near that.

.54 Kibler Colonial breaking 2000 fps...

In the 1865 Jules Verne novel “From the Earth to the Moon” they used BP. Probably not the confirmation your looking for.

Adam in WI said:

.54 Kibler Colonial breaking 2000 fps...

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Well, I guess at least one muzzle loader can get to 2000 fps.

Old Hawkeye said:

Well, I guess at least one muzzle loader can get to 2000 fps.

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I've got a new Colonial that needs to be fired. I'll take the chronograph along and let you know. I think he was burning Swiss though. I only have Goex and Schutzen.

I hit over 2000 with a 50 cal tc Hawken. Was long ago and I don't remember any of the load data.

As a general rule of thumb, the smaller the caliber the greater the velocity potential.

I have exceeded 2000 fps in my .32 caliber flintlock. I have recorded just over 2000 fps with my .50 caliber flintlock but do not gain much velocity above that with additional charges. The increase in velocity per 10 grain increments begins to drop off beyond a certain point. Recoil also becomes a factor if you are also looking for accuracy.

My son and I saw repeated shots over a chronograph exceed 2300 fps. That was a .45 patched ball from a 28” Cabela’s Hawken. The charge was nothing outrageous - something like 70grns Swiss. Can’t remember if it was ffG or fffG.

Dixie gin works got a .40 up to 2500 fPS
You can get a 50 or 54 up to 2300, just no reason to

Just under 2100 fps with .50 GRRW. .498 ball, linen patch, and 120 gr 2F. Summer time at 5000' altitude.

Adam in WI said:

I've got a new Colonial that needs to be fired. I'll take the chronograph along and let you know. I think he was burning Swiss though. I only have Goex and Schutzen.

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He also makes his signature cottonel powder that's hotter than swiss

Those are some pretty respectable SDs. Really good barrel and he must be pretty consistent in his loading procedures!

With black powder we don't depend on velocity, we go for mass.

waksupi said:

With black powder we don't depend on velocity, we go for mass.

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Me too, every Sunday. Chicken dinner after.

tenngun said:

Dixie gin works got a .40 up to 2500 fPS
You can get a 50 or 54 up to 2300, just no reason to

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Very good comments! So far the record belongs to my colleague with the .40 and 2,500fps! Would a .22 caliber with a chamber wider than the barrel, simulating a rifle bottle case, be the secret to achieving greater speeds? Did you understand the idea? Obviously, when loading, you have to be careful to stop the projectile in the barrel, before reaching the chamber.

waksupi said:

With black powder we don't depend on velocity, we go for mass.

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And accuracy

with these high velocity's what kind of projectile is being used , surely not a ball

Round ball.

dracer said:

with these high velocity's what kind of projectile is being used , surely not a ball

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It can be with a ball... the most suitable barrel for this is the Forsyth, with a slow twist, above 1:100