Frequent misfires with my kentucky pistol

[SomeDude]

I have a Traditions kentucky pistol, and I replaced the nipple with a Musket nipple because the 4-wing musket caps are all that I can find. I'm wondering if this could be causing my misfires somehow?

There's an awful lot of fouling on the lock and side of the barrel, as if the cap is expelling a ton of gas that's not making it down the nipple, but I don't know why that would be the case since it fits the nipple snugly.

I also noticed that the caps get very mangled. Not a clean split down the side like I've heard happen with some caps, but more like contorted and twisted in every way, like someone chewed it up or something.

But the other thing I noticed is that after a handful of shots, the misfiring will go down. It seems like it's just right after it's been cleaned that it is doing this, and I wonder if maybe it could be because I'm leaving too much oil in the breech and barrel. I've noticed that the only way to get the initial two or three shots off is by unscrewing the breech screw and pouring a bit of powder down into it. After those initial shots, and a few more with just the cap and no powder in the breech, it seems like it will start firing a lot more reliably.

So between these two possibilities, what is more likely to be causing my misfires?

 

[SDSmlf]

I wonder if maybe it could be because I'm leaving too much oil in the breech and barrel. I've noticed that the only way to get the initial two or three shots off is by unscrewing the breech screw and pouring a bit of powder down into it. After those initial shots, and a few more with just the cap and no powder in the breech, it seems like it will start firing a lot more reliably.

Leaving any oil in the breech is too much. And if you ‘burn’ it out by shooting it out, you can in my opinion, get a build up of difficult to clean burnt oil and powder in the fire channel, adding more to your ignition problems.

 

[SomeDude]

Leaving any oil in the breech is too much. And if you ‘burn’ it out by shooting it out, you can in my opinion, get a build up of difficult to clean burnt oil and powder in the fire channel, adding more to your ignition problems.

Okay, maybe I can wipe the oil out before shooting then? Or so I need to not oil the breech at all?

 

[Grenadier1758]

@SomeDude, after cleaning, store the pistol with the muzzle down so the excess oil runs out toward the muzzle. Before going to the range swab the breech area with a liberal application of rubbing alcohol to dissolve any oils in the breech. I use a rust inhibiting lubricant such as Barricade or EEZox which leave a thin film of rust inhibiting lubricant which is a better protector of the breech than a heavier gun oil which can gel up and clog the firing chamber.

 

[ord sgt]

With any percussion firearm, BEFORE LOADING, snap two or three caps on an empty barrel. Point the barrel down range with the first cap. The second cap, point the barrel toward some grass or leaves and watch for some movement. This will clear the flash channel of any debris and that will insure the main charge will ignite when you do load the powder and ball.

 

[Eutycus]

I'm missing something , Can too much oil cause mangling of the caps? I had a Derringer that wasn't just too reliable at setting off the caps. I found out it was the hammer and nipple weren't aligning just right. A little more recessing the wood so the lock would set in just a little deeper remedied my situation. This "deeper inletting"may not be your problem at all.

 

[Hatchet-Jack]

As others have stated it could be oil in the breech. I believe you have a patent breech which can be problematic if anything is obstructing it. I have a traditions Shenandoah and it has a patent breech. I always run a few patches soaked with alcohol the night before I shoot it.
Other possible causes if you are swabbing between shots fouling gets pushed down into the patent breech clogging it really good. I avoid running my jag all the way down when I swab between shots. You said it seems like the misfires start after you clean it. How do you clean it, what is your process? Is it possible you are not getting all of the fouling out of the breech then you load it and it clogs the breech.

 

[deermanok]

Some years back, I changed the nipple on one of my rifles to a musket cap nipple.
I had a lot of misfires that I couldn't figure out why, so I went back to using the # 11 caps and the problem went away.
As mentioned, the hammer has to strike the nipple square or the musket caps won't fire.
You could check out how everything lines up. If you're off some, then you'll have make some adjustments.

 

[SomeDude]

As others have stated it could be oil in the breech. I believe you have a patent breech which can be problematic if anything is obstructing it. I have a traditions Shenandoah and it has a patent breech. I always run a few patches soaked with alcohol the night before I shoot it.
Other possible causes if you are swabbing between shots fouling gets pushed down into the patent breech clogging it really good. I avoid running my jag all the way down when I swab between shots. You said it seems like the misfires start after you clean it. How do you clean it, what is your process? Is it possible you are not getting all of the fouling out of the breech then you load it and it clogs the breech.

Well I mix 99% isopropyl alcohol with mineral oil and run patches of that down the barrel until they come back clean. Then after that I will fill the sink with soapy water and stick the breech end into the water and run the range rod in and our so it sucks water up through the nipple and breech and gets the fire channel and stuff too. Then I let it dry, and clean out the breech with a q-tip soaked in the iso/mineral-oil mix, and run a patch with a few drops of mineral oil down the bore at the end.

The last time though I accidentally put way too much mineral oil on the last patch, and mineral oil squirted out through the breech and nipple, so it must have been really full of it. But other times I don't think I have left anything but a thin layer and still had the same issue.

Some years back, I changed the nipple on one of my rifles to a musket cap nipple.
I had a lot of misfires that I couldn't figure out why, so I went back to using the # 11 caps and the problem went away.
As mentioned, the hammer has to strike the nipple square or the musket caps won't fire.
You could check out how everything lines up. If you're off some, then you'll have make some adjustments.

Sometimes when I let the hammer down with my thumb to try to seat the caps, it seems like it wants to catch them right on the edge, but then it seems like it's because I'm inadvertently pulling the hammer to one side. However even when it fails to set off the charge, it always sets the cap off. It's just the fact that it sprays powder fouling over so much of the outside if the gun, and leaves the caps so misshaped that I wondered if that could have something to do with it.

 

[deermanok]

I don't think your hammer should be able to move side to side. It shouldn't have any play in it.
That could be part of the problem?

 

[SomeDude]

I don't think your hammer should be able to move side to side. It shouldn't have any play in it.
That could be part of the problem?

It doesn't have play in the sense that you could rattle it side to side, but the clearance between the edge of the clip and the outside-edge of the hammer seems to be so small that if I cock the hammer back and let it down with my thumb it will catch the outer edge of the cap as if my thumb is pushing the hammer over just a hair, but if I do the same with the finger and thumb of my left hand to make sure it's coming straight down, the edge of the hammer clears the edge of the cap.

 

[deermanok]

Not sure if I'm following you exactly.
One of my rifles was having a problem with the hammer hitting the edge of the nipple and hanging up.
My hammer had to move a bit to the right to clear.
I bought a shim kit and disassembled the lock. I put one shim behind the hammer and that fixed it.
Not sure if that's the same thing you have going on?

 

[Hatchet-Jack]

Well I mix 99% isopropyl alcohol with mineral oil and run patches of that down the barrel until they come back clean. Then after that I will fill the sink with soapy water and stick the breech end into the water and run the range rod in and our so it sucks water up through the nipple and breech and gets the fire channel and stuff too. Then I let it dry, and clean out the breech with a q-tip soaked in the iso/mineral-oil mix, and run a patch with a few drops of mineral oil down the bore at the end.

The last time though I accidentally put way too much mineral oil on the last patch, and mineral oil squirted out through the breech and nipple, so it must have been really full of it. But other times I don't think I have left anything but a thin layer and still had the same issue.

I've never used mineral oil as gun oil. The soapy water should clear the breech of any fouling. As long as you clear the oil from the breech prior to loading it you are good.

 

[TreeMan]

Blast that bore out with brake cleaner before shooting. Let it run out the nipple too. Let it evaporate and go shooting. Lack of cleaning thoroughly and oil in the bore will always cause misfires.

 

[toot]

remove the nipple and put a pinch of 4fg, under it and reinstall, and it should clean it out. and should work.

 

[SPQR70AD]

Well I mix 99% isopropyl alcohol with mineral oil and run patches of that down the barrel until they come back clean. Then after that I will fill the sink with soapy water and stick the breech end into the water and run the range rod in and our so it sucks water up through the nipple and breech and gets the fire channel and stuff too. Then I let it dry, and clean out the breech with a q-tip soaked in the iso/mineral-oil mix, and run a patch with a few drops of mineral oil down the bore at the end.

The last time though I accidentally put way too much mineral oil on the last patch, and mineral oil squirted out through the breech and nipple, so it must have been really full of it. But other times I don't think I have left anything but a thin layer and still had the same issue.



Sometimes when I let the hammer down with my thumb to try to seat the caps, it seems like it wants to catch them right on the edge, but then it seems like it's because I'm inadvertently pulling the hammer to one side. However even when it fails to set off the charge, it always sets the cap off. It's just the fact that it sprays powder fouling over so much of the outside if the gun, and leaves the caps so misshaped that I wondered if that could have something to do with it.

where do you get 99% alcohol? all I see in many stores is 70%

 

[rafterob]

Confounds me the way folks come up with methods to make this simple hobby complicated. Why are we cleaning with alcohol and mineral oil, only to clean with soap and water afterwards? Why blast the bore with brake cleaner? Hydrogen peroxide, murphys oil soap, windex, alcohol etc..
I have partaked in muzzleloading since the 70's. Cleaned with warm soapy water, rinse with clean warm water, dry and oil. Dry patch before shooting and pop a cap or two if percussion prior to loading. The only time I had problems in the breech was the short time I used Ballistol for a bore protector. Use regular gun oil now.

 

[FPDoc]

where do you get 99% alcohol? all I see in many stores is 70%

Farm supply stores generally carry 99% isopropyl alcohol. I don't use it specifically for cleaning but do use it to make sure all the water is out of the barrel as part of the cleaning process.

 

[hanshi]

Yes, it very well could be the misaligned hammer causing the cap fragmentation you describe. And the musket nipple may be part of the problem. Get rid of the musket nipple and go back to the regular nipple. Clean with plain or soapy water and ditch the oil. Dry it thoroughly and protect with Barricade which dries and doesn't even have to be cleaned out before firing. Use pipe cleaners if you have difficulty cleaning/drying the fire channel.

 

[SomeDude]

Not sure if I'm following you exactly.
One of my rifles was having a problem with the hammer hitting the edge of the nipple and hanging up.
My hammer had to move a bit to the right to clear.
I bought a shim kit and disassembled the lock. I put one shim behind the hammer and that fixed it.
Not sure if that's the same thing you have going on?

Yeah I think this might be what's going on for me. It manages to set the cap off, but it's more like it snags the edge of the cap, and then slides down it, rather than hit it square.

Where did you get your shim kit?