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Hoping to get some quick help
- Thread starter momof3
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
WARNING! I noted above a member said smokless powder. NEVER PUT SMOKLESS IN ANY MUZZLELOADER. DEATH/DESTRUCTION/PAIN etc. Only one single muzzleloader I can thin of can use it and its not a CVA. NO SMOKELESS POWDER
It was in conjunction with the unmentionable muzzleloader the OP was talking about.
Which is a CVA wolf or whatever and is very likely gonna blow up with smokeless powder. We should NEVER mention smokeless here. There is only one (Savage) that can even use it and its an unmentionable.
Remember this lady is a newbie buying for a newbie. Gotta be real careful with that advise on powder. SYNTHETIC black powder is what she will be able to find (Triple 7, Pyrodex, etc etc.).
Remember this lady is a newbie buying for a newbie. Gotta be real careful with that advise on powder. SYNTHETIC black powder is what she will be able to find (Triple 7, Pyrodex, etc etc.).
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Learn something new every day, never having used them I always was under the impression the synthetics were smokeless. My bad, sorry.
Welcome to the forum momof3. 
As you are finding, there are gunpowders that a muzzle loader can use safely and smokeless powder that will cause a muzzleloader to blow up.
The safe powders are intentionally made for muzzleloaders and some work better than others.
The safe ones includes Pyrodex, Hodgdons Triple Se7en and of course real black powder. The stores cannot have cans of real black powder on their shelves because by Federal Law, stores must keep it locked up. You have to ask for it and often the workers in the stores that have it don't even know they do so, ask the store owner or manager. Then, there's the Blackhorn 209 you mentioned. It would work well in a modern style muzzleloader if the gun was made for using #209 shotgun primers but it doesn't work very well with the regular old fashioned #10 or #11 percussion caps the old fashioned traditional guns use.
As for the gun, usually the traditional guns cost a bit more than the in-line guns we don't talk about. Check out the guns sold by Traditions. That is usually the least expensive newly made guns on the market. All of these traditional guns will have a exposed hammer and the lock that makes it work is exposed on the side of the stock. Be sure to check out our Classified Ad section on the forum. Often Traditions, CVA, Thompson Center rifles are offered at very good prices and our members are trustworthy.
You say your son is interested in history? There is nothing historic about the modern in-line guns.
The traditional side lock guns on the other hand represent the guns that were used up thru the Civil War. Even the Traditions sold guns do a fair job of representing the guns that were used during and following the Gold Rush in California. Then there is the Lyman Great Plains rifle which does a good job of representing the days of the mountain man. (It weighs in around 10 pounds so it might be too heavy for your son.)
I do recommend that you buy a Percussion style gun that uses a percussion cap. Percussion cap guns were used between roughly 1830 and the end of the Civil War.
Although flintlock guns are available, they are a bit fussy at times and there is a learning curve to getting them working as well as the newer percussion type guns. After your son gets familiar with a percussion style sidehammer gun, he may want to graduate to the flintlock. Flintlock style guns were used from roughly 1630 up to 1850.
Hope this helps you.
As you are finding, there are gunpowders that a muzzle loader can use safely and smokeless powder that will cause a muzzleloader to blow up.
The safe powders are intentionally made for muzzleloaders and some work better than others.
The safe ones includes Pyrodex, Hodgdons Triple Se7en and of course real black powder. The stores cannot have cans of real black powder on their shelves because by Federal Law, stores must keep it locked up. You have to ask for it and often the workers in the stores that have it don't even know they do so, ask the store owner or manager. Then, there's the Blackhorn 209 you mentioned. It would work well in a modern style muzzleloader if the gun was made for using #209 shotgun primers but it doesn't work very well with the regular old fashioned #10 or #11 percussion caps the old fashioned traditional guns use.
As for the gun, usually the traditional guns cost a bit more than the in-line guns we don't talk about. Check out the guns sold by Traditions. That is usually the least expensive newly made guns on the market. All of these traditional guns will have a exposed hammer and the lock that makes it work is exposed on the side of the stock. Be sure to check out our Classified Ad section on the forum. Often Traditions, CVA, Thompson Center rifles are offered at very good prices and our members are trustworthy.
You say your son is interested in history? There is nothing historic about the modern in-line guns.
The traditional side lock guns on the other hand represent the guns that were used up thru the Civil War. Even the Traditions sold guns do a fair job of representing the guns that were used during and following the Gold Rush in California. Then there is the Lyman Great Plains rifle which does a good job of representing the days of the mountain man. (It weighs in around 10 pounds so it might be too heavy for your son.)
I do recommend that you buy a Percussion style gun that uses a percussion cap. Percussion cap guns were used between roughly 1830 and the end of the Civil War.
Although flintlock guns are available, they are a bit fussy at times and there is a learning curve to getting them working as well as the newer percussion type guns. After your son gets familiar with a percussion style sidehammer gun, he may want to graduate to the flintlock. Flintlock style guns were used from roughly 1630 up to 1850.
Hope this helps you.
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I'm really making a wild guess here, but I think @kje54 really meant to describe modern substitute powders for black powder applications such as Pyrodex or Triple Seven. Blackhorn 209 is another black powder substitute that has a very high ignition point that requires the 209 shotgun primer and a special nipple to fire it.
Yes I did, my mistake.
MaterielGeneral
40 Cal
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Your owners manual will answer a lot of questions for you. Look up YouTube videos, they will be a great asset and learning tool. Here are a few websites for you to browse.
Track of the Wolf - Muzzle Loading & Black Powder Guns Kits, Parts, Accoutrements, Rendezvous Gear & Primitive Americana
Black Powder Guns & Firearms - Black Powder Supplies | Cabela's
Dixie Gun Works muzzleloading, blackpowder and rare antique gun supplies.
Good luck
Track of the Wolf - Muzzle Loading & Black Powder Guns Kits, Parts, Accoutrements, Rendezvous Gear & Primitive Americana
Black Powder Guns & Firearms - Black Powder Supplies | Cabela's
Dixie Gun Works muzzleloading, blackpowder and rare antique gun supplies.
Good luck
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Hi momof3,
Firstly - great gift idea!
Secondly - looks like you've got all the help you need finding local powder (or just bite the bullet and pay the HAZMAT fee to order online. I used Powder Valley for all sorts. But as was said, PLEASE NO SMOKELESS POWDER in a muzzleloader. Ask on the other forum or give a quick google and you'll get sorted quick enough!).
Thirdly - not all is lost! I made the same purchase for the same reasons - there was nothing else in shops near me, didn't know any better, it was cheap, it promised an 'all in one starter kit' etc. BUT after a few months playing with the modern unmentionable, I quickly got the itch to move onto traditional smoke poles. Joined this forum, looked around and 'listened' to the conversations, then found a lovely little precussion gun and have never turned back!
But the point is that it was a good jumping off place for a complete newbie. If your son enjoys history, it's only a matter of time til he'll want to try traditional smoke. The difference in the amount of... tinkering and skill that goes into working up a traditional load, and the immersion in tradition and history - he'll stand no chance
. When he starts asking, get some advice on this forum, let him browse around. Also, as far as price, try the listed firearms on this site, but I ultimately found a great bargain on a forgotten little kit gun on GunBrokers.com for the same ~$200 price my previous 'all in one' starter kit- but again, ask around here because it's not always easy to tell hidden gem from lemon!
Firstly - great gift idea!
Secondly - looks like you've got all the help you need finding local powder (or just bite the bullet and pay the HAZMAT fee to order online. I used Powder Valley for all sorts. But as was said, PLEASE NO SMOKELESS POWDER in a muzzleloader. Ask on the other forum or give a quick google and you'll get sorted quick enough!).
Thirdly - not all is lost!
I made the same purchase for the same reasons - there was nothing else in shops near me, didn't know any better, it was cheap, it promised an 'all in one starter kit' etc. BUT after a few months playing with the modern unmentionable, I quickly got the itch to move onto traditional smoke poles. Joined this forum, looked around and 'listened' to the conversations, then found a lovely little precussion gun and have never turned back!But the point is that it was a good jumping off place for a complete newbie. If your son enjoys history, it's only a matter of time til he'll want to try traditional smoke. The difference in the amount of... tinkering and skill that goes into working up a traditional load, and the immersion in tradition and history - he'll stand no chance
. When he starts asking, get some advice on this forum, let him browse around. Also, as far as price, try the listed firearms on this site, but I ultimately found a great bargain on a forgotten little kit gun on GunBrokers.com for the same ~$200 price my previous 'all in one' starter kit- but again, ask around here because it's not always easy to tell hidden gem from lemon!
Good for you, CTshooter! I was going to try to find somebody up your way to do just that. There are muzzleloaders all over New England. Must be somebody up yonder who will have a traditional ML piece at a $$ she can afford for her son.
If you read through you'll see many responded to correct my mistake, NEVER use smokeless powder in a muzzleloader, use black powder or black powder synthetics ONLY.
Welcome momof3.
It is great thing you want to do for your son as He must be a very good responsible young man. With that see if you can cancel the order because as you stated your son like history and that gun has non and also will not bring him joy. Take the advise given and there are plenty of great folks on this site that are here to help. You will also find out with Traditional muzzleloading, a great friendly group of folks, it’s way more fun, and tons of history that surround this hobby! As you can see with all the posts...we are here to help and i’m sure others will reach out in you neck of the woods and offer in person help as that makes the learning process easier. The best part ofTraditional muzzleloading is the truely great people you will meet and the friends you will make! Good luck and i hope everything works out and your son will intime be making smoke!
It is great thing you want to do for your son as He must be a very good responsible young man. With that see if you can cancel the order because as you stated your son like history and that gun has non and also will not bring him joy. Take the advise given and there are plenty of great folks on this site that are here to help. You will also find out with Traditional muzzleloading, a great friendly group of folks, it’s way more fun, and tons of history that surround this hobby! As you can see with all the posts...we are here to help and i’m sure others will reach out in you neck of the woods and offer in person help as that makes the learning process easier. The best part ofTraditional muzzleloading is the truely great people you will meet and the friends you will make! Good luck and i hope everything works out and your son will intime be making smoke!
user 48679
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Welcome to the board, momof3 !
FYI, any muzzleloader will require accessories to load it, accessories to clean it (after EVERY day's use), and accessories to shoot it.
The loading accessories would include:
1) A "short starter", which is a 6" long ramrod with a knob or T-handle on one end that starts the projectile down the bore far enough to use the ramrod housed under the barrel.
2) Any black powder or synthetic BP can be used in most any muzzleloader.
3) An adjustable black powder measure
4) Black powder, or a BP substitute
5) (possibly) A ramrod tip that fits the forward contour of the projectile, so as to not deform it during loading
To Load:
1) Check that the barrel is empty and there no ignition source in the ignition channel
2) After looking at recommend load/powder levels, adjust the measure to that specification and fill it to the brim with powder
3) Using the measure, pour the powder charge down the barrel
4) Start the projectile into the bore (anyway if using a patched round ball; pointy end forward if using a conical projectile), the use the ramrod to push the projectile all the way down bore until it seats very firmly against the poured powder charge (any air gap here can cause damage during firing)
5) Put the ignition source in place - and the gun is ready to fire.
(A muzzleloader can be legally transported in most jurisdictions with a load in place, as long as the ignition source is not placed in/on the ignition channel)
The cleaning accessories would include:
1) A liquid black powder bore cleaner. (or hot water)
2) A supply of white cloth cleaning patches, which are used until they emerge from the muzzle fairly clean (use wet patches first, followed by dry patches) - I cut up old undershirts.
3) A bore-sized bristle brush for scrubbing out stubborn areas not removed during normal cleaning.
4) A bore-sized jag tip for the ramrod, to hold cleaning patches
5) Gun oil
To clean:
1) Obtain/cut cleaning patches that are about 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" and neither too thick or too thin.
2) Place the jagged cleaning tip on the end of the ramrod
3) Remove the spent/fired ignition source, leaving the ignition channel clear
4) Pour a little bore cleaner (or hot water) with the muzzle "up" down the bore until it comes out of the ignition channel
5) Wet a patch with bore cleaner (or hot water) and wrap it around the cleaning jag starting by draping it over the front end of the jag and folding the extra material down over the sides
6) Push the wet patch down bore until it stops, the withdraw it to a point that it's ready to exit the muzzle, and push it down for second cleaning stroke.
7) Repeat steps # 5 & #6 above as required - until the patches emerge from the muzzle at least a light gray color
8 ) Repeat steps #5 & #6 above, but using dry patches
9) After the cleaning agent has dried, soak a cleaning patch in gun oil and run it down the now dry bore one cycle in/out - then use the oily patch to wiped the gun's exterior metal surface, taking extra attention for the area around the outside end of the ignition channel
You should now be done with one day's shooting (ALWAYS clean after a day's shooting, never wait until the next day - the reason being black powder is hydroscopic, and will cause the start of rusting anywhere the fouling remains.
Have some happy & safe shooting - and remember to keep your powder dry !
FYI, any muzzleloader will require accessories to load it, accessories to clean it (after EVERY day's use), and accessories to shoot it.
The loading accessories would include:
1) A "short starter", which is a 6" long ramrod with a knob or T-handle on one end that starts the projectile down the bore far enough to use the ramrod housed under the barrel.
2) Any black powder or synthetic BP can be used in most any muzzleloader.
3) An adjustable black powder measure
4) Black powder, or a BP substitute
5) (possibly) A ramrod tip that fits the forward contour of the projectile, so as to not deform it during loading
To Load:
1) Check that the barrel is empty and there no ignition source in the ignition channel
2) After looking at recommend load/powder levels, adjust the measure to that specification and fill it to the brim with powder
3) Using the measure, pour the powder charge down the barrel
4) Start the projectile into the bore (anyway if using a patched round ball; pointy end forward if using a conical projectile), the use the ramrod to push the projectile all the way down bore until it seats very firmly against the poured powder charge (any air gap here can cause damage during firing)
5) Put the ignition source in place - and the gun is ready to fire.
(A muzzleloader can be legally transported in most jurisdictions with a load in place, as long as the ignition source is not placed in/on the ignition channel)
The cleaning accessories would include:
1) A liquid black powder bore cleaner. (or hot water)
2) A supply of white cloth cleaning patches, which are used until they emerge from the muzzle fairly clean (use wet patches first, followed by dry patches) - I cut up old undershirts.
3) A bore-sized bristle brush for scrubbing out stubborn areas not removed during normal cleaning.
4) A bore-sized jag tip for the ramrod, to hold cleaning patches
5) Gun oil
To clean:
1) Obtain/cut cleaning patches that are about 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" and neither too thick or too thin.
2) Place the jagged cleaning tip on the end of the ramrod
3) Remove the spent/fired ignition source, leaving the ignition channel clear
4) Pour a little bore cleaner (or hot water) with the muzzle "up" down the bore until it comes out of the ignition channel
5) Wet a patch with bore cleaner (or hot water) and wrap it around the cleaning jag starting by draping it over the front end of the jag and folding the extra material down over the sides
6) Push the wet patch down bore until it stops, the withdraw it to a point that it's ready to exit the muzzle, and push it down for second cleaning stroke.
7) Repeat steps # 5 & #6 above as required - until the patches emerge from the muzzle at least a light gray color
8 ) Repeat steps #5 & #6 above, but using dry patches
9) After the cleaning agent has dried, soak a cleaning patch in gun oil and run it down the now dry bore one cycle in/out - then use the oily patch to wiped the gun's exterior metal surface, taking extra attention for the area around the outside end of the ignition channel
You should now be done with one day's shooting (ALWAYS clean after a day's shooting, never wait until the next day - the reason being black powder is hydroscopic, and will cause the start of rusting anywhere the fouling remains.
Have some happy & safe shooting - and remember to keep your powder dry !
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I'll add duellist1954 on Youtube.
Find a local muzzleloading club; they are out there. Talk to the folks at a meeting or on the range to get an idea, and some hands-on instruction. If you wish to truly enjoy the sport, you will need others to play with.
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This ^ !!! Great point - I've seen the NMLRA list (here). Any other good list of clubs Momof3 could browse?
Wild Tim
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You know,. There's this other thread where we're all going on about how to get more people into traditional muzzleloading.
Having a separate forum for modern muzzleloading is absolutely the worst way to do this. These guys are already interested in muzzleloading. They just have to see how much prettier ours are and that they really are as effective on game and we could win them over. Sending them packing within two replies sure doesn't help any.
Having a separate forum for modern muzzleloading is absolutely the worst way to do this. These guys are already interested in muzzleloading. They just have to see how much prettier ours are and that they really are as effective on game and we could win them over. Sending them packing within two replies sure doesn't help any.
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