Offhand Practice

[coloradoclyde]

I fell asleep after the first page....Somewhere around the 3x5 cards..(to much to read)...Up to that point I was in agreement.

I made a bunch of 3x5 silhouettes for practicing offhand kneeling sitting etc...... The nice thing about 3x5 silhouettes is they are reactive and can be placed in actual hunting locations.

Any shooter needs to discover what their weakest position is and work to strengthen it, if they want to be a good marksman.

One of the toughest offhand shots to make is hitting a target like a pop bottle or briquette hanging from fish line...At least for me....I find a slightly moving target hanging in mid air with no reference point around it difficult to hit.
So we use to practice them a lot.....at ever increasing distance.

Practice, practice, practice .

 

[dsayer]

Here are the results from this morning. 3 bad ones on some minor misfires that I'm attributing to the caps (wrong or right).

Either way, seems I need to work on my follow through!!

I was a little concerned about the first two sentences, then was relieved to see the last sentence above.

Do you know what "calling your shot" is and how to do it?

Gus

Gus,
I do not know what "calling your shot" is.

 

[dsayer]

In all honesty, folks will only post the "very" best target that they have shot in a day.

If you wish to post your best efforts, post a 25 yard off hand 6 bull target. Aim small and miss small.

Group is not bad, but the bull is too big at 25 yards for medals.

I didn't have much time for shooting the other day. I honestly didn't keep track of how many shots I took (10-12 I think, I guess I could count as I refill my capper...) but this is everything I shot that morning. My intention is to post everything I shoot and not cherry pick my "best" groups. I don't think that will do any good for making me a better shooter.

I have some targets printed that are 4 3in (I think) circles with a small bullseye in the middle. I'll use those next time.

Thanks!

 

[dsayer]

I often use or make targets with a square bull like the one he posted.... I treat each corner of the square as an individual bull's-eye. This gives me 4 individual targets from one bull.

Color me impressed. Last time I had my eyes checked I was better than 20/20 and I don't think I can see the corners of the square well enough to shoot AT them. Even if I could, the idea of me actually HITTING the corner is laughable at my current level.

 

[dsayer]

Oh boy... Give me a week to read through and digest all this!! Thanks for all the info. I only skimmed it but appears to a lot to think about and try in the future.

 

[Artificer]

Gus,
I do not know what "calling your shot" is.

OK, that is a vital part of Offhand (or really any shooting position for accuracy) is you learn to be able to call your shot or be able to note where the bullet should have gone through the target when the gun goes off.

Military Rifle Instruction teaches to do that using Range Data Books where there is a big target on each page and a number of smaller targets for each shot on the stage of fire. What you do is immediately after you fire, you take a pencil/pen and mark on a smaller target in a Data Book where you think the bullet hit. This must be done before you look at the target. Then you look at the target and place the number of the shot on the larger bullseye where the bullet actually hit the target. OK, that might be hard to visualize so go to the following link and scroll down to "Figure 6. Sample Score Sheet" for an example of how it is done.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/6455627/USMC-Rifle-Marksmanship-Data-Book-M14-M16-11-72

The reason this is an extremely important thing to learn is that it teaches you follow through and it will also help you identify shooting errors you made while shooting - that would result in a shot hole away from your group.

Now what is not shown in that figure is a "remarks column" that you should also fill out before you look at the target for each shot or afterwards. This is where you write remarks on why you think the shot went off the center of the group when you shot. Following are some things I have actually written in the remarks section of data books over the years.

1. A strong cross wind came up before the shot went off and blew the barrel muzzle left (or right).

2. My eye blinked when the shot broke and I have no idea where it went.

3. Held the rifle too long before firing and jerked the trigger, so the bullet went up and to the right.

4. I burped/sneezed/coughed/etc. right as the shot broke and/or it caused me to jerk the trigger.

5. The shot broke when the sights were at the extreme left/right/up/down of my wobble area.

6. Lost concentration momentarily and I have NO clue where the shot went off.

7. Loud noise behind me that broke my concentration.

8. Arm cramped while I was trying to get the shot off.

and many more than that.

With practice and calling and plotting each individual shot in practice, you will get to the point that on most shots, you will know where the bullet hit before you lower the rifle from the shot. This will tell you if you made a mistake that caused the shot to hit outside the group and that happens most often, while in a minority of times it will show you if something is wrong with your load or rifle.

One other technique that is important to add is concentrate on perfect sight alignment and a smooth trigger pull not only before the rifle goes off, but after the rifle goes off and long enough for the bullet to go through the target. DO NOT try to jerk the trigger when the sights are near the center of the target as the sights naturally move around while you are pressing the trigger. (This natural movement is called your wobble area.) Concentrate on perfect sight alignment more than where the sights are and let the gun go off be a surprise to you.

Now, do you know what "Natural Point of Aim" means?

Gus

 

[dsayer]

Interesting. I kinda do this in my head but have never documented it systematically. Will start this next week when I get back to the range.

Also, no. I've heard the term thrown around but have not really looked into what "natural point of aim" actually means.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Color me impressed. Last time I had my eyes checked I was better than 20/20 and I don't think I can see the corners of the square well enough to shoot AT them. Even if I could, the idea of me actually HITTING the corner is laughable at my current level.

Wasn't trying to impress you.....was trying to help.

For round bulls-eyes I usually use a bingo marker, But I like the point of a square better because it can be made very small. Follow the edges with your eye....It diminishes to nothing. a square has vertical and horizontal reference points. A circle cannot be made smaller than it is to begin with.

 

[smoothshooter]

Unless I am making a sight change, sighting in a new gun, or doing load experimentation, I do less than 10% of my shooting from any kind of a rest, with any kind of gun.
Has made me a much better shot ever since I was a young kid.

 

[smoothshooter]

The size, shape, and color of the target/aiming point can make a huge difference in group size.

Also, don't get in the habit of so many other shooters I see of yanking the butt of the gun down off their shoulder the instant the gun goes off. It leads to subconsciously beginning the downward jerk before the gun has fired, or the bullet has left the barrel.

And besides, it just looks dumb.

PS: the above post was intended for the OP, not you Clyde!

 

[Artificer]

First, Natural Point of Aim (hereafter will be called NPA) is primarily for target shooting and not hunting in the Offhand Position, though NPA can be used if one has the time before taking the shot in other hunting positions.

To really understand the positive impact of using NPA, here is the best thing to do. Take up your normal offhand stance and when you have your sights settled on the center of the bullseye, close your eyes for a couple of seconds holding the rifle/gun where it feels good and then open your eyes. When you open your eyes, if the sights are not pretty much centered on target, then you have to move your foot or feet and try again until you find the position of your feet that will give you NPA when your eyes are open. (NPA is a little different for pistol or shotgun shooters, but have to save that for another thread.)

OK for right handed shooters begin your offhand stance by facing your target full on and then turning slightly to the right and stand naturally. This will cause you to turn your torso a bit to align your sights and sort of "Lock your torso in place" using bone support in addition to muscle support. Raise the rifle and aim in and then close your eyes as stated above until the rifle feels good. When you open your eyes, don't be surprised at all when the sights are off to way off target. Now it is time to move your feet to correct where the sights are aligned and try the technique again.

To move the sights left or right for NPA, use your LEFT foot as a pivot point and turn your body mostly with moving your right foot in an arc. To turn to the right, move your right foot in an arc to the left a little more inline with the target. Move your right foot to right if you need to move your sights to the left. Close your eyes, get comfortable, then open your eyes to see how much more you have to move so the sights are in the center of the target.

To move your sights up and down you move your right foot closer in or further away. In rare instances, you might have to move the left foot for this, though normally not.

OK, once you get to the point where after closing your eyes and opening them, the sights align on target, you have established your NPA.

Now this is so important on the highest levels of modern rifle competition, that the shooters will NOT move their feet in between shots and have a folding camp stool to sit on to rest between the 20 rounds of Offhand shooting they do. Of course we can't do that with ML rifles/gun, as unless we have everything on our person to load and prime for the next shot, we have to move to get those items.

JUST REMEMBER to reestablish your NPA every time you move back into position to fire the next shot. A tip we can use from modern rifle shooters is stick a stick or sticks in the ground to mark the position of your left foot and even your right foot. Some folks use little stones and some just sort of dig their feet in the ground when the ground is soft to mark the position of their feet.

Why NPA works so well for Offhand shooting is because it adds natural bone support in your body to align the sights and thus you don't have to "force" the sights into alignment by muscle control of your arms. Forcing the sights into position with your arm muscles is going to cause fatigue and you won't get as many good shots in a row before you start spreading the shots outside a good group.

Believe it or not, there are some times in hunting where you will take up a body position that enhances your NPA in the offhand without you consciously realizing it, after you have the NPA technique down pat.

Gus

 

[coloradoclyde]

The size, shape, and color of the target/aiming point can make a huge difference in group size.

Also, don't get in the habit of so many other shooters I see of yanking the butt of the gun down off their shoulder the instant the gun goes off. It leads to subconsciously beginning the downward jerk before the gun has fired, or the bullet has left the barrel.

And besides, it just looks dumb.

PS: the above post was intended for the OP, not you Clyde!

I know it wasn't meant for me.... but, I agree with what you said.... :thumbsup:

 

[dsayer]

Either way, I really am impressed. And definitely appreciate the help and insight. It's just that I was raised by a man who's approach to shooting was hit the range a time or two before the season and of you hit a pie plate at 50 yards you're good to go. It wasn't until this last year that I became interested in becoming a better marksman. So the idea of shooting at the corner of 1.5 inch square is difficult for me to wrap my head around.

 

[dsayer]

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the really thorough description of NPA and how to achieve it. Though I'm primarily a hunter, I'll give this a try. On first read it of course sounds very tedious and time consuming. Though like everything I'm certain you get much faster at establishing and re-establishing NPA the more you do it. Thanks again!

 

[Artificer]

It takes a LOT longer to type or read about the NPA technique than it does to do it, once you have done it only a few times. Even though it cannot be used often in hunting, it will make you a better offhand shot for hunting.

You are most welcome.

Gus

 

[azmntman]

The size, shape, and color of the target/aiming point can make a huge difference in group size.

Also, don't get in the habit of so many other shooters I see of yanking the butt of the gun down off their shoulder the instant the gun goes off. It leads to subconsciously beginning the downward jerk before the gun has fired, or the bullet has left the barrel.

And besides, it just looks dumb.

PS: the above post was intended for the OP, not you Clyde!

Cost me a nice three point mule deer 3 years ago. Took alot of replay in the mind to determine how the heck I missed the 50 yd shot, had a rest, was calm, thanked the Lord before I fired and then I DID THAT :haha:

Feels dumb too :redface:

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Read up on the famed barrel maker Harry M. Pope. Some of his 200-yard offhand records, shot in the late 1800s using black powdah cartridge single shot rifles, ala Schuetzen shooting, still stand to this day. He was a man of slight build but shot 12 & 14-pound rifles.

IMHO, this article linked to is the BEST, simple & consise, article on offhand shooting ever ... period!
http://www.issa-schuetzen.org/off-hand-rifle-shooting.html

To get any better info, one would have to read what it considered the ”˜bible’ of competitive shooting, titles appropriately enough “Competitive Shooting, Techniques and Training for Rifle, Pistol, and Running Game Target Shooting“ by A. A. Yur’yev.
https://www.amazon.com/Competitive-Shooting-Techniques-Training-Running/dp/0935998535

 

[Adui]

I dont shoot offhand as much as I should. That said literally 99% of my shooting is at the range. the other 1% is the occasional club meet shooting at steel and or novelty targets; off hand..

Nothing like the good old days when I was a kid on an 8 acre farm with a bb gun and too much time on my hands

 

[Artificer]

That's an excellent article by Mr. Pope and in it he explains Natural Point of Aim, though he does not go into a lot of detail on it.

Thank you for the link.

Gus

 

[Col. Batguano]

"calling your shot" is where you honestly say where the sights actually were aimed at the time of discharge. We all LIKE to say they were dead smack center of the bull, in the X ring, but truth be known, most of the time they will be somewhere else ; the 9 ring at 11:00 o'clock, the 8 ring at 9:00 o'clock etc. It's the deviation from where you expected the shot to land that is the key, not actually WHERE they landed.

Does that help explain it?