With no prime in the pan!

[ebiggs1]

Doing another one of my experiments. Will a flintlock fire with no prime in the pan?
I think it very unlikely but I can not say with any authority it couldn't happen.

I took my favorite TC flintlock and my newest build, the GPR with the L&R lock on it, and tried more than a dozen strikes each with clean pans (no prime) but loaded and ready to fire. Neither fired in more than the two dozen tries.

However this changes drastically if there is even a few grains lying in the bottom of the pan. With just three or four grains of 3F in the pan it will fire! Although this too is unpredictable and still not likely it must be considered possible. The L&R lock tends to congregate it's granules closer together because it's pan is deeper but more narrow than the TC pan.

Anybody have a flintlock fire with no powder in the pan?

 

[lonehunter]

Well, not with no powder, but two weeks ago, at the range, no spark, flint needed napped, So i dumped the prime, napped the flint, figured, lets give it a try, only powder in the pan was what was stuck to the fouling, not much, waaaay less than 1gr, not even a hang, I Was quite impressed!
I would definitely not deem the gun safe with no powder and a clean pan, it only takes 1 spark. :v

 

[shootemup]

I've heard that it could, and although I've never seen it happen, I believe it could.

 

[Roy]

yep.

 

[roundball]

However this changes drastically if there is even a few grains lying in the bottom of the pan. With just three or four grains of 3F in the pan it will fire!

I assume you meant "3-4 kernels" ?
(ie: 3-4 grains would be about a pan full)

 

[StewartLeach]

Somehere out there on the 'net there is or was a video of an unprimed rocklock getting the main charge to fire.

My recollection is of large lock- like on a Brown Bess- and a fresh flint- was tipped to the left about 45 degrees- and that it took a few strikes to get sparks to find the hole......

White Fox

 

[luieb45]

Happened to me once. Good thing I kept it in a safe direction because I had already been warned that it could happen.

 

[poordevil]

The Bevel Brothers were able to get an un primed pan to fire.

P

 

[nchawkeye]

Bet your azz it can...I did it the first time to the range with mine back in 1977...Put a .45 caliber hole in the shooting shed...

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

As an NRA Instructor, we always teach students that it can happen, since it has happened to others HERE and has been documented to have happened.

Firearms accidents always occur when the gun isn't loaded. Otherwise we'd call 'em "deliberates" :shocked2:

Dave
NRA Certified Muzzleloading Instructor

 

[Eric Krewson]

My friend Joe shot a hole in his living room wall with a loaded but unprimed flintlock. He said he saw the one spark bounce perfectly into the touch hole, BOOM.

 

[Tom Compton]

'Nuff said.

TC

 

[Congress Own Regiment]

guess that is why they make frizzen stalls.
that would be and eye opener. :shocked2:
i use one on loaded pans. think I will do so on an empty one for now on.
how would you live that down! AHH HONEY I JUST SHOT THE _____ YOU FILL IT IN? :redface:

 

[ebiggs1]

However this changes drastically if there is even a few grains lying in the bottom of the pan. With just three or four grains of 3F in the pan it will fire!

I assume you meant "3-4 kernels" ?
(ie: 3-4 grains would be about a pan full)

Yes sir, I did mean three or four "granules"!
Which just might start another experiment, just how much, meaning how little, powder can be used and still be 100% reliable?

 

[Zonie]

Your experiment is like playing a roulette wheel with 500 numbers and betting on just one number.

The odds are hundreds to one that you will be lucky,( or unlucky in the case of a loaded flintlock) but probably when it will do the most damage, that one spark will bounce thru the vent and set the gun off.

In other words, you probably will wear out a dozen flints with no success but, all it takes is once to cause great mischief.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Your experiment is like playing a roulette wheel with 500 numbers and betting on just one number.

The odds are hundreds to one that you will be lucky,( or unlucky in the case of a loaded flintlock) but probably when it will do the most damage, that one spark will bounce thru the vent and set the gun off.

In other words, you probably will wear out a dozen flints with no success but, all it takes is once to cause great mischief.

With respect, it can be a much higher chance than 1 in 500, and probably varies greatly with touch-hole size & design, and probably with the lock geometry. With the little dinky lock on my Pedersoli Kentucky, I have done it once inadvertently and a few times deliberately in experimenting and/or demonstrating, and the number of strikes requires for a discharge ranged from one to a maximum of several - I don't think I ever got to a dozen before she fired. I've never tried with the L&R Manton's on my double or with the large lock, shallow pan, and low touch-hole on my Pedersoli Frontier, so I can't say for sure about them, but I suspect the Frontier would would be interesting.

Regards,
Joel

 

[mathews]

I did it when trying to get over the flinch .I was pointing at the target and would fire three times without powder in the pan. Then fill it and shoot. It supprised me twice in one after noon.

 

[ebiggs1]

I suspect if you have been firing your gun or you had a prime in the pan and discarded it, the results may be quite different. I tried with a “clean” pan. I still think it highly unlikely to discharge but not impossible. The addition of just a few “granules” in my two test guns made the probability more likely.

 

I still think it highly unlikely to discharge but not impossible.

This is correct.

 

[gearheart]

In Ontario you must empty th pan and plug the touch hole for the gun to be considered legally unloaded. With perc. removing the cap from the nipple is enough.