Wheat bread.

Discussion in 'Camp Cooking' started by coloradoclyde, Jan 18, 2018.

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum by donating:

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jul 21, 2019 #201

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    598
    Location:
    South Texas
    Has anyone here heard or read that there is a "conditioner" used in some breads that is mostly ground up feathers? Mostly white breads, I think. And the preservatives! We left a loaf of white bread on the back porch. (We don't eat white) It did dry up some but never did turn green and still lasted a year. Finally got tired of looking at it and gave it to the birds. Our birds won't eat some brands of bread. Then we had to give it to the donkey. He'll eat anything (Well almost anything)
     
  2. Jul 21, 2019 #202

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Moderator Staff Member MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    28,496
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    When it comes to preservatives, I like them. In fact, I go out of my way to make sure the food I eat has some of them.
    At my age, I need all of the preserving I can get. :D:D
     
    tenngun likes this.
  3. Jul 21, 2019 #203

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    598
    Location:
    South Texas
    I can understand the preserving part. We can all use some of that. But what about the conditioning? Do you need any of that?
     
  4. Jul 21, 2019 #204

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,823
    Likes Received:
    679
    Yes!
    L-Cysteine – an amino acid used to prolong shelf-life in products such as commercial bread – can be found in duck and chicken feathers and cow horns, but most that's used in food comes from human hair. Much of the hair comes from china.

    Calcium propionate is a mold inhibitor added to breads also, it's also added to animal feeds. A friend of mine use to work in a feed mill and can't stand the smell of commercial bread because the smell of calcium propionate reminds him of the feed mill. I never noticed it until he told me one day and now I too can detect the Calcium propionate in commercial bread.
     
    David Veale likes this.
  5. Jul 21, 2019 #205

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    598
    Location:
    South Texas
    Oh yum. Human Hair and feathers!
     
  6. Jul 21, 2019 #206

    tenngun

    tenngun

    tenngun

    Cannon

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    9,846
    Likes Received:
    978
    Location:
    Republic mo
    I have a mutt that’s half bull dog half yorkie, a full yorkie, and a chihuahua. I sure I eat a lot of dog hair every day, human hair and feathers ain’t to different
     
  7. Jul 21, 2019 #207

    David Veale

    David Veale

    David Veale

    36 Cl.

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    47
    Location:
    Three Rivers, MI
    GMO wheat does exist (I think it was China who found some in US wheat exports a few years ago and threatened to stop buying it), but it is not approved for commercial use. Roundup is used on lots of wheat now to get the heads to dry out uniformly before combining, but much more so on oats where this is a bigger concern. It's also often used as a "site-prep" spray to kill weeds before a field is planted to just about any crop, particularly with "no till" operations. Orchards use it under trees, and vineyards use it under the grapes. I'm pretty sure I've seen it used on potatoes here in Michigan, where all the weeds in and around a field died just before harvest.

    You're confusing mutagenicity with acute toxicity. A mutagen simply messes up DNA, just like radiation does. If the right mutation is made, it becomes cancer, but that will likely take quite a few years. Acute toxicity basically means that you get sick or die right after you're exposed to something -- but glyphosate won't do that to you. It *will* however, kill the bacteria in your gut that comprise your immune system (and that happens immediately after consumption) at very low levels (.1ppb). Cheerios were found to have 120 times that amount of glyphosate. So -- we can all breathe easy now that we know it *only* kills the bugs that are 80% of our immune system. (Cough, cough!) That's why we get the messed up immune reponses to things like gluten which have risen dramatically since the introduction of glyphosate on food crops. The NIH paper also shows why glyphosate also triggers things like kidney failure and liver damage. Other science has linked it to autism (which, not surprisingly, has also risen dramatically since it started use on food crops).

    Here's the National Institute of Health link again -- it's definitely worth reading! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945755/
     
    Carbon 6 likes this.
  8. Jul 21, 2019 #208

    David Veale

    David Veale

    David Veale

    36 Cl.

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    47
    Location:
    Three Rivers, MI
    Keep in mind that preservatives typically preserve by preventing the growth of organisms like bacteria or fungi. Bacteria in our gut make up something like 80-90% of our immune system. Food preservatives do not make good (living) human preservatives!
     
  9. Jul 21, 2019 #209

    David Veale

    David Veale

    David Veale

    36 Cl.

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    47
    Location:
    Three Rivers, MI
    While most all GMOs from cotton to corn and soy are sprayed with glyphosate, it's also used on grain crops for dessicating the seed before harvest, and in orchards and vineyards, and often for site prep before just about any crop is planted.

    While I agree that hybrids are safe, there is a significant downside. Most have significantly lower nutritional density. For instance the non-hybrid corn I grew tests out at 11-12% protein whereas most hybrids are closer to 9%. Similar observations have been made with all sorts of other nutrients on hybrids vs. heirloom crops. As with most things in life, you never get something for nothing. With hybrids, we're trading quality and getting quantity. Since people can only eat so much food, this is actually leading to nutrient deficiencies which often leads to different types of disease. Interestingly enough, glyphosate locks on to certain nutrients, which is how it kills plants (and our all important gut bacteria). It also leads directly to nutrient deficiencies in humans.
     
    sawyer04 likes this.
  10. Jul 21, 2019 #210

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,823
    Likes Received:
    679
    Besides its active ingredient -- glyphosate -- Roundup contains inert ingredients that act primarily as surfactants to enable the herbicide to penetrate leaves more efficiently. Some of these ingredients, especially polyethoxylated tallowamine, are deadly to human cells, according to research from the University of Caen, France, published in 2009 in "Chemical Research in Toxicology."

    Although the studies reported by the Extension Toxicology Network suggest animals can tolerate considerable exposure to glyphosate, the surfactants in Roundup may cause a number of toxic reactions. According to the National Pesticide Information Center, these include weight loss, lethargy, excessive drooling, vomiting and diarrhea. Moreover, tests show that about 15 percent of dogs that eat grass treated with glyphosate-formulated products develop serious symptoms of toxic reaction. In light of these and other findings, the Roundup label recommends providing any animal that shows signs of toxicity plenty of fluids to prevent dehydration and calling a veterinarian if symptoms persist for more than 24 hours.

    Argentinean researchers reported that pregnant rats and their babies experienced abnormalities in their enzyme levels after the mother had been exposed to glyphosate, in research published in the March 2001 issue of "Environmental Research." In 2012, University of Pittsburgh researchers showed that Roundup can induce morphological changes in developing tadpoles. Both studies point to subtle effects on enzyme production and growth in mammals that hadn't been taken into account in earlier studies. Rick Relyea, one of the Pitt researchers, said: "Herbicides are not designed to affect animals, but we are learning that they can have a wide range of surprising effects by altering how hormones work in the bodies of animals."
     
    sawyer04 and David Veale like this.
  11. Jul 21, 2019 #211

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    598
    Location:
    South Texas
    You are aware that Zonie and Myself said those things in jest. We are both well aware that food preservatives do not make good "people preservatives".
     
    tenngun and David Veale like this.
  12. Jul 21, 2019 #212

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,823
    Likes Received:
    679
    And yet the irony of it is that we still eat them.
     
    David Veale likes this.
  13. Jul 21, 2019 #213

    pnw

    pnw

    pnw

    32 Cal

    Joined:
    May 27, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    2
    Might be worth exploring all of the different classes of wheat, hard ones (hard red winter HRW, dark northern spring DNS, hard white HW) are all raised bread type classes blended to get the specs a commercial baker wants, soft ones (soft white SWW, white club SWC and soft red SRW) are mostly flat bread and noddle types with soft red usually marketed as feed. SW and SWC are blended to get western white usually exported for noodles and flat breads. Durum is for spaghetti type products. Spelt and emmer are ancient types used long before Orville Vogel bred our high yielding modern varieties. If you can source them test them in your recipes, lots of variation. With new processes seed to bread can be accomplished in a few hours, the old ways took days and fermentation to achieve desired results and also gave the products B vitamins.
    All wheats originated in the middle east, the golden crescent, and are introduced non natives here.
    Lots of tempting pictures in this thread, thanks to all!!!
     
  14. Jul 21, 2019 #214

    sawyer04

    sawyer04

    sawyer04

    40 Cal MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    95
    Location:
    missouri
    I am afraid There isn't much choice for most, Carbon 6, yes, it is one of the most ironies of modern civilization. To entrust ones health with governments and the chemical companies propaganda is sad. Sea food grown in the sewage infested waters of Vietnam, seen that one, and the radiation of sea food in the oceans. I could go on, on and on.
     
    David Veale likes this.
  15. Jul 21, 2019 #215

    tenngun

    tenngun

    tenngun

    Cannon

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    9,846
    Likes Received:
    978
    Location:
    Republic mo
    And yet with all those bad things humans are healthier have longer lives and are better fed then ever in human history. Oh the horror.
    I remember Spencer Tracy in inherit the wind giving a speech about ‘yes you can fly but the birds loose their wonder and the clouds smell of gasoline, yes women can vote, but they can no longer hide behind their pettycoats’ or words to that effect.
    No matter what price civilization has needed it cost something wonderful and beautiful, but it paid for it by an advancement of the human condition.
    Yes we lost some taste in food, but we started that journey ten thousand years ago. No strawberry is as good as it’s wild tiny counterpart, but, I can have fresh strawberries every day of the year.
    I’ve already out lived my grandfather and grandmother, soon I will out live my other grandparents, my father was as healthy as a horse, but at this age I’m healthier and in better ‘shape’ then he was.
     
    Kansas Jake likes this.
  16. Jul 22, 2019 #216

    David Veale

    David Veale

    David Veale

    36 Cl.

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    47
    Location:
    Three Rivers, MI
    True, though lifespans have peaked in the US and UK and are now in decline again. So far as I can tell, we've traded quality for quantity there as well. Imagine the life of the typical native american -- hunting, fishing (all the things most of us do at every limited opportunity), close bonds with friends and extended family... and probably lots of fighting and disease/death. No doubt tough at times, but is it any worse than sitting in a desk, isolated from your family and friends, or working in a factory until you hit 65, at which point cancer is often a factor? We're always trading one thing for another, with little net benefit as I see it. We have more material goods than ever before, but have lost the pride that comes with making it all ourselves. The absolute worst trade we've made as I see it is trading our children's lives for present day luxury (now that climate change is entering the runaway feedback loop phase).
     
    sawyer04, Carbon 6 and Eutycus like this.
  17. Jul 22, 2019 #217

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    598
    Location:
    South Texas
    There's no doubt we got it better than grampa did in certain things. But the "Good Life" isn't that Good in certain other departments. Cancer scares the heck out of me. It's just not that rare anymore.
     
  18. Jul 22, 2019 #218

    Juice Jaws

    Juice Jaws

    Juice Jaws

    54 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,600
    Likes Received:
    544
    Location:
    Near Yosemite Park
    Well guess we are done talking about bread in this post.
     
  19. Jul 22, 2019 #219

    Kansas Jake

    Kansas Jake

    Kansas Jake

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    2,149
    Likes Received:
    190
    Give us this day our daily bread. Both of my grandmas baked bread every day when I was a kid. Surprisingly one always made white bread and the other wheat bread(graham). Both breads were good with cheese and butter.

    If you don’t bake(You should try) most communities these days have great local artisan bakeries where you pay more but get great tasting bread.

    I didn’t add the first line above to be religious but to show what a fundamental role bread plays in most societies.
     
  20. Jul 22, 2019 #220

    tenngun

    tenngun

    tenngun

    Cannon

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    9,846
    Likes Received:
    978
    Location:
    Republic mo
    Your reply makes a lot of sense and is a good argument. However even living rough in the woods for a week that shower feels awful good. My wife would have been dead these ten years before had her her stroke happed in 1988 instead of 2008.
    In my hand I have access to all the worlds information.
    Our runaway climate may see us get as warm as 1100 AD maybe as warm as 50 BC I doubt as warm as 3000 BC and really doubt as warm as 7000 BC.
    If our CO2 gets ten times higher then now we may get the biodiversity of the last time it was that high.... about seventy million years ago.
    Can I get bread as tasty as one ate in France in 1750? Or rural England? I doubt it, but today I can have tortillas, pitas, French, Italian, white, wheat,rye, mixed grains, home made, ect, and just a click away from recipes for any imaginable bread. And almost any grain is avalible at my local health food store.
    Yes I don’t have the romantic life of living one on one with nature, but neither did they.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

arrow_white