Discussion in 'Camp Cooking' started by coloradoclyde, Jan 18, 2018.
Organic farming is period correct.
And what's worse, the corporate veil allows the manufacturers to do massive amounts of damage with virtually no liability. If you or I poisoned our neighbor's well, there'd be hell to pay -- but not if we were corporations! I used to live in Whatcom County, Washington State (town of Bellingham). Nearly every well in that county is now unsafe for drinking from due to contamination with a chemical once used by berry growers and now banned (ethylene dibromide). The county had to build a municipal water system to service *every* house and farm in the contaminated areas as a result. I can hardly imagine how much economic impact that's had, and am nearly certain that the manufacturer of said chemical never got more than a slap on the wrist if that. God forbid that economic conditions in the country cause the municipal water systems to fail and force people to again use private wells there. Considering the spike in global debt levels, I think that's a real possibility.
And perhaps even more interesting is that what's banned in places like *China* -- which still uses DDT and has *very* lax regulations -- is not banned in the US! My utility provider wanted to spray under our power lines with just such a product before I asked them not to. I'm sure that I'm the exception, and that most people have no idea what's being sprayed all around them and thus don't care.
here's a paper from the NIH on the celiac / glyphosate link. It's definitely not just a fad. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945755/
I grew up on a farm and farmed years ago. I don’t remember much joy in cultivating very small crops for hours on end.
Still the over emphasis on chemicals and genetically modified crops does present concern. Unfortunately the Pandora’s box is open.
I've cultivated corn with horse drawn equipment -- which was definitely the most difficult thing I've ever done with them. There's a steep learning curve, during which I weeded out a whole lot of corn! The horses had to learn the process just as much as I did, since they're really the ones doing the work. If they don't know were to go, the wander into the rows and I can't always correct them quickly enough.
When we look at the crops which are so widely grown these days (corn and soy throughout much of the farm belt), most of it is feed for animals which were either formerly raised on pasture (cattle), or which were raised to a far lesser degree (chickens) in the past. As I understand it, the idea of a "meat chicken" is relatively new (post 1930's). Prior to that, they were mostly spent laying hens, and those were much more likely to be allowed to range and forage insects/plants just as I do with my own flock. Yes, it's more expensive, but studies show that the food produced outside of the grain intensive, CAFO (confined animal feeding operation) model that dominates is *far* better for human consumption. Pay more for food, pay less for healthcare and loss in quality of life!
This whole discussion is a testament to one of the main reasons I have so much interest in history. The past was by no means a panacea by any stretch of the imagination, but there were a whole lot of things which were done better than they are today. Yeah, travelling by buggy certainly limits your options and takes more time (and can be quite dangerous as well), but when everyone does that, people know their neighbors, and communities stay intact. This is precisely why the Amish continue to insist upon horse drawn travel. Growing food without chemicals is definitely more work, but a little exercise is something we're sorely lacking as a society (the military is *very* concerned about it!), and a lack of chemicals means our world would be far less toxic than it is. Doing without fossil fuels has a whole lot of obvious costs... but if we were to do without, the subject of human extinction wouldn't be anything to worry about either.
Sorry folks, let me see if We can steer this thread back to "BREAD".
I enjoy making bread.
Bread making is a skill worth learning. I think we take for granted the bread isle at the grocery store. Few of us realize where their bread actually comes from and how fragile that supply chain might be.
A loaf of bread goes belly up in a week, a bag of flour in about 6 months and wheat berries can last for several years.
David Veale, I’ll only digress for a second. I’m guilty of causing “cultivator blight” in many a field. For city folk, that is when you don’t follow the row with the tractor and cultivator and destroy the planted crop.
Now back to wheat bread, I have my grandma’s Graham bread recipe. That is what she called her wheat bread. She made it every day or so. Nothing better than that covered with fresh butter and a thick slice of cheese all washed down with a cup of coffee.
Maybe it's that guilty feeling from that "cultivator blight" of mine that made me try to change the subject. I too destroyed some crops until I got the hang of it.
Hmmmmm, I never thought of that David. I spend alot of time in Indiana surrounded by corn and soy fields. Come to think of it... i dont think i have EVER seen a honey bee. Lots of wasps. This is not a good thing.
I agree and will add that far too many people are jumping on the "allergy de jour" bandwagon these days. What irritates me to no end is what I call "idiot labeling" which is the practice of branding something as Gluten free when there has never been ANY wheat added to the food in question or could never be added; ever.
Pure maple syrup labeled GF. 100% ground beef labeled GF. And finally, chlorine free bleach, labeled gluten free. No, I'm not kidding or exaggerating. All these things I have seen at my local grocery store and I refuse to purchase anything with an idiot label.
I've seen exactly two examples of genuine wheat allergy or sensitivity in my entire life. One was a colleague who actually was allergic to wheat to the point that she carried specific instructions to give to any caregiver/EMT etc. should she be unable to respond to questions and an old Labrador retriever named Rue whose excessive dander problems would subside when I switched her to grain free food. That's it. So I don't lend much credence to people who demand gluten free items to be on the menu of every restaurant they frequent.
Yes, those chemicals are banned in the states, but not in foreign countries where a lot of food is imported from. Also meat products that are imported are partially inspected because of the wonderful programs the U.S.D.A. has implemented in the last 20 years.
Don't blame the farmer, the blame goes to chemical companies and their subsidized educational methods at the illustrious institutions of higher indoctrination.
My family has cut way back on bread, even homemade. I have the room and thought of growing our own grains since we do enjoy the staff of life. I think there may be a market for such a glitch.
Definitely agree on the "idiot labels", but people who have to avoid this stuff (as I did and probably still should) soon learn that it's in all sorts of stuff you'd never think of, like roasted peanuts, "krab" meat, or soy sauce.
Check out the NIH article I posted a few comments back and you'll see the trends are scientifically irrefutable.
The power of corporate money at universities is unbelievable. My wife went to a talk hosted by a former professor at Oregon State, who had been working with Monsanto to develop a spray that farmers could use to quickly break down crop residues. It turns out that the bacteria they'd developed for this purpose worked really well -- so well in fact that they didn't care if they were working on dead vegetation or live plants, where they would easily spread and devour anything living. When she suggested that this was too dangerous to release, Monsanto took offense and managed to have her fired.
Another professor who was working with Bayer funding on Atrazine research found that it was capable of turning male frogs into females at 0.1ppb concentration (an amount which is even being found in *rain* during spray season and is regularly exceeded in midwestern groundwater). He took it upon himself to spread the word about the dangers of this stuff, and Bayer now tails him with a heckler whenever he gives a talk.
I haven't used any herbicides in years, unless you count my vinegar concoctions. But I'm more afraid of Atrazine than I am of Roundup. Maybe because it's widespread and used on grains that are consumed. There are miles and miles of those 'amber waves" out there. But Roundup is very widespread too. Too widespread. Almost everyone who has a lawn or garden had a partial jug of it in his garage. Which is scary in itself. But think of the gallons of it that are already spread out over the neighborhoods. Luckily it seems to be a more watered down product than it used to be. But that means some "operators" just use more of it. Scary!
FYI, Roundup (glyphosate) is the #1 used herbicide, Atrazine is #2 .
Glyphosate is used on corn, beans , and wheat.
The farmers who grow conventionally around me say most corn fields get *both* in hopes of dealing with ever growing pesticide resistance. That's why Monsanto has been working to create a 2,4-D resistant corn, so they can revive that monstronsity (which was one of the components of Agent Orange), and has also created dicamba resistant soy (which is drifting quite a distance and killing neighbor's crops). You'll see a lot of fields now with rye growing around the edges, as they try to take advantage of the allopathic effects of that crop where weeds are usually at their worst, and are most likely to survive a little spray and thus develop resistance.
Some times the devil needs a lawyer. A hundred years ago famines were pretty common and we were hard pressed to feed a couple of billion people. Now we feed seven billion and famines are rare, never has such a high percentage of babies born that can expect their three score and ten or four score then ever in human history.
Never in human history has too much food caused health problems to a such a large percentage of the worlds population.
A walk through an old grave yard that is still in use, reading the tombstones is a moving experience.
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