What is an Underhammer

[lanedh]

These photos exactly duplicate the Kendall in my collection (less the flash cup). The hole through the breechplug (above the hammer pivot pin) is threaded on both sides. Screws hold the buttstock to the action at these holes. Another longer screw up through the wood fits into a blind tapped hole on the underside of the tang. The screw also secures the front end of the trigger guard.

The design is simplicity itself and I can't help but wonder why these rifles didn't enjoy greater popularity outside the New England area. Certainly there were enough makers, and prolific ones at that.

The metal used to make the breechplug/action is extremely tough, not easily drilled or worked as would be ordinary iron. It must have been heat treated during manufacture.

Question: what part of the lock is the 'improved stud' for which Mr. Smith et al had a patent?

 

[gmww]

You have one in your collection? Can you post a photo of yours? I'd sure like to see color photos of one or two if you have others.

 

[faw3]

I think it was for a breech plug mounting but Im not sure. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[gmww]

Hey fellas,

Check out this Hilliard Underhammer for sale!

Underhammers for sale

Hilliard Underhammer Percussion Rifle - .42 cal.; 29" oct. barrel - About fine condition. - Generally crisp metal with nice brown patina overall with some dents on edges of barrel (1" diameter across flats). Nifty elevation system on peep rear sight; globe w/ post front sight; center sight in the middle of the barrel is missing. Strong crisp markings include "Cast-Steel", "D.H. HILLIARD / CORNISH / N.H." on the left quarter flat of the barrel, and "3 2 3/4" on the bottom. Excellent mech. dark bore with strong rifling. Wood has been cleaned and reoiled. German silver irregular shaped inlay (stylized turkey? I dunno...) on right side stock, oval on cheekpiece, scroll escutcheons around screws. - antq - item #MP-HU1 - $1,100

Also check this sight out. It's a past auction from what I can tell. The realized prices just floored me! I wish I had know about it.Old auction

 

[John Taylor]

60 what? I can do the metal if you want to do the wood. What caliber would you like it?

 

[Colonial Boy]

That is surely a fine looking rifle, love the timber. The late Lynton McKenzie, of engraving fame, had one on which the 'works' were nearly all on the outside of the lockplate; made a very strong stock, i've got a drawing somewhere, must look for it.

 

[Metalshaper]

Colonial,

That Was the Muley,, here is the Underhammer that MRW and I built for my son. It was Christmas 2003..

Our home shop version of and H&A.. but with inserted lockworks..so there is NO pins running cross-wise through the frame. If I can ever figure out the engraving thing.. I'll do a lil design on the frames. just to dress them up..

This is Marlow's, a brass framed[url] version..Made[/url] more or less like an H&A clone. < pins through the frame >

Respect Always
Metalshaper

 

[walruskid1]

sweet!

 

[John Taylor]

You do nice work

 

[lanedh]

GMWW:

I have only the one rifle; sorry I don't have a digital camera to show it, but if you look at item #355 on the old auction link you will see an almost exact duplicate of mine. Mine has the most beautiful tiger-stripe maple stock and engraving at the barrel/breech interface, that's what prompted me to buy it. The bore is too far gone to rerifle--damn!. I got it while on my honeymoon in '63 (yes, Dear, I do remember) at Green's Hardware store in Cornish Flat, NY, across the CT river from Windsor, Vt.

Somebody remarked yesterday that the lock design is so simple that files and hacksaws would do the job---hmmmm....

 

[John Taylor]

You ever think about lining the barrel? I copied the picture and as soon as I can spare a few minuts I will make an action.

 

[lanedh]

The barrel could be relined but there are a few too many other faults to make it worthwhile to restore to shooting condition. But I must admit these last posts have whetted my appetite to copy the works from mine in modern materials and add a tapered octagon barrel. Weld a piece of threaded rod to the face of the breech and we're in business. In fact I don't see why the standing breech mechanism couldn't be fabricated from a piece of heavy bar stock with "cheeks" welded on either side to support the hammer and trigger. (The production model's breec/tang is formed from a single block of material).I have an idea for a safety catch that I'd add as well. I'd probably fasten stock and breech together the same way Kendall's rifle is. It seems plenty sturdy for the light weight and recoil it needs to withstand.

Keep that motivation coming, boys. I may NEVER get the target pistol done.

v/r, Bluejacket

 

[lanedh]

John: Who does barrel relining? Just curious.

Bluejacket

 

[John Taylor]

Me. I use T.J.'s liners which are hammer forged out of 4130. Most of the guns I do are early Winchesters for the cowboy action shooters. Not a lot of call for doing MLs, most of them come in for rebores.

 

[faw3]

The action from ML buiders supply is $60, I was saying I wish someone would make the Hillard actin for $60. Got a new 30 yr old H+A boot gun today, its been just sitting in a case at a gun shop Ive been in 1000 times over the yrs. They moved some stuff around and $150 later it was mine. It isnt unfired now also. This is wild... the barrel is the frame too, looks like they took 12" of barrel rifled 6" or 7" then milled out a slot to put the hammer/trigger in,drilled a hole to put the grips on (still had saw dust in it!) anyway EASY it sure is that,and shoots dead on . Fred :hatsoff:

 

[David454]

FW can you copy and paste the address to that ml supply web sight iam haveing trouble finding it?

 

[lanedh]

GMWW:

Thanks for the JPEG files. I downloaded them last night--wish I had mentioned I have dial-up at home, took over an hour for them. Haven't had a chance to review them yet but will as soon as I get some of this weekend's 'Honey, do..." list whittled down.

v/r, Bluejacket

 

[gmww]

I feel your pain Bluejacket. I have dial-up too. But I'm also a cheap son of a gun. :grin:

 

[Colonial Boy]

Metalshaper,

Sorry I wasn't clear on that. It was a Mule Ear that Lynton had and, as I remember, the only part on the inside of the plate was the tail of the sear which worked through a slot. The trigger pivot was in the stock.
The lockplate was inlet a bare 1/16" into the stock.

 

[John Taylor]

I'm going to build one just to see what's involved. Looks like ther will be a lot more than $60 for the machine time. Will most likly machine from bar stock and may weld 2 pieces for the sear. Was also thinking of a takedown model.
I had an H&A boot pistol a long time ago. You are right about the construction. There is a picture on my web sight of a 36 cal. boot pistol I made several years back[url] www.johntaylormachine.com[/url] under services then examples of our work.