What is a smoothbore rifle?

[satx78247]

To ALL,

What is the difference in a "smoothbore rifle", which some here have mentioned, and a plain fowler, shotgun or (unrifled) musket???

I'm confused.

yours, satx

 

[Billnpatti]

A smoothbore rifle has a slightly different shape to the stock when compared to a fowler. The rifle has a rifle shaped stock and a fowler has a stock shaped more like a shotgun. The rifle stock has more drop to it and the fowler, like a shotgun, has a straighter stock.

 

[B.Habermehl]

Sights! Smooth rifles have front and rear sights. Fowlers generally have only a front sight. BJH

 

[Oldnamvet]

A smoothbore rifle typically has a rear sight. The fowling piece only the front sight.

 

[satx78247]

THANKS. = Makes sense.
("Smoothbore rifle" sounds like the same sort of oxymoron as "military intelligence" or "jumbo shrimp".)

I was wondering if we were talking about something like a "paradox gun", i.e., a "partially rifled" barreled weapon.

yours, satx

 

[satx78247]

I also wondered if a "smoothbore rifle" was something like what our "Northeast Texas Wildcat", Harriet Anne (nee Moore) Potter, called a "rifld muskit" (sic), which was a 11-12 gauge rifle made from smoothbore Escopetas.

As I said, THANKS for the kind explanation.

yours, satx

 

[Zonie]

Rifled Muskets is the term used to describe the guns carried during the Civil War.

They were usually .58 caliber (or .577 in the case of the Enfield) and shot hollow based Minie' bullets (sometimes called Minie Balls).

The 1841 Springfield, the last of the US smoothbore Muskets was a .69 caliber gun and many of them were re-rifled to shoot .69 caliber Minie' bullets.

Being military guns, they almost always had mounts for a bayonet.

Original Smoothbore rifles are not common but do exist in large enough numbers to make the collectors discuss them.

Some feel they were originally rifles which were shot out and rebored without rifling.

Others feel they were originally made without rifling because the buyer wanted a gun that could shoot shot as well as a patched roundball with sufficient accuracy for hunting out to 50+ yards.

Like a lot of firearms questions, unless someone someday finds some written information about these guns and why they exist we will never really know for sure.

 

[Ike Godsey]

....
I was wondering if we were talking about something like a "paradox gun", i.e., a "partially rifled" barreled weapon.

yours, satx

rifled barrels are always "partially rifled" - if they were "fully rifled" they would be smooth.

HU???

yes, true. if you think this over, the rifling are grooves, cut into the inside of a barrel. and - in case of a 3 grooved rifle-musket like an enfield - 50% of the barrels inside is for the grooves and 50% is not. so if a barrel is "fully rifled" it would be smooth. *duck & run*

 

[Britsmoothy]

....
I was wondering if we were talking about something like a "paradox gun", i.e., a "partially rifled" barreled weapon.

yours, satx

rifled barrels are always "partially rifled" - if they were "fully rifled" they would be smooth.

HU???

yes, true. if you think this over, the rifling are grooves, cut into the inside of a barrel. and - in case of a 3 grooved rifle-musket like an enfield - 50% of the barrels inside is for the grooves and 50% is not. so if a barrel is "fully rifled" it would be smooth. *duck & run*

I call that being pedantic :haha:

Smoothrifles of our persuasion tend to have heavier barrels and often octagon for the full length, like the rifles. Set triggers too sometimes, fowlers don't.

B :thumbsup:

 

[Billnpatti]

I must disagree with those who have stated that a smoothbore rifle has a rear sight. Many do but many also do not have a rear sight. if you are shooting in a smoothbore match in Friendship, the rules disallow a rear sight that extends above the line of sight along the top of the barrel. That is why people who shoot in those matches turn their tang bolt (or screw) so that the slot is in line with the barrel. It is used like a rear sight and is legal because it is below the top of the barrel and is used sort of like a sight but is actually only a reference since the front sight cannot be seen through the slot.

Having said that, I will admit that many, if not most, folks put a rear sight on their smoothbore rifles.

 

[satx78247]

UNDERSTOOD.

That's why I wondered if the "smoothbore rifle" was something similar to a "paradox gun", which is a weapon with the last 2-8 inches of the bore rifled so that the weapon could shoot both shot and PRB/minie balls more accurately.

THANKS for your input.

yours, satx

 

[Wes/Tex]

SATX, it's possible that a 'paradox' type situation cold exist but would consider it more accidental than by design. Until modern times, these guns were nearly all standard rifles of different "schools" that had worn out their rifling and become sighted smoothbores by default. I've seen many of them but never felt any one of them had been deliberately built that way from the start. Practicality usually went farther than dollars; sometimes still does! :thumbsup:

 

[satx78247]

That makes perfect sense. - As I've said elsewhere, the 18th & 19th centuries were NOT "throw away" societies, as everything that could be repaired, recycled or "re-purposed" was so reused, especially on the western frontier.

yours, satx

 

[George]

Until modern times, these guns were nearly all standard rifles of different "schools" that had worn out their rifling and become sighted smoothbores by default. I've seen many of them but never felt any one of them had been deliberately built that way from the start.

The Pennsylvania Gazette
February 17, 1773
Philadelphia
To be SOLD very cheap, for cash only, by CONRAD BATIS, Living in Market street, next door to the corner of Third street, opposite to the goal, in Philadelphia, A QUANTITY of this country and German made RIFLES , both cut and smooth bores, in the best manner;

The Pennsylvania Gazette
September 20, 1739
RUN away.... Took with him a smooth Rifle Gun.

Spence

 

[excess650]

I'll go a little further and say that a "smooth rifle" has the attributes of a rifle, but a smooth bore. It will have a rear sight, rifle guard, cheek piece, and a patchbox. Octagon to round is pretty typical, but I have also seen full octagon. I have also seen rifles with octagon to round barrels with spiral rifling as well as straight rifling.

None of this is set in stone! There were too many makers with too many variations and too many guns rebuilt from recycled parts. Recently I handled a gun stocked more like a fowler (no cheek piece or patchbox, fowler guard, rifle buttplate, single trigger, flintlock, octagon to round barrel with rear sight, and spiral rifling. The maker's name on the barrel was from near Reading, Pa.

Fowlers typically have thinner barrels and larger bores.

 

[ncmtmike]

Is these "rifles" grooved the full length of the barrel? If they are I just made a smoothbore,cause I took a 32" barrel down to 20",didn't see any grooves :idunno: :idunno: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[hanshi]

Think of them as rifles with smooth bores instead of rifled bores. That's pretty much it.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Thanks Spence, it seems so odd that someone would make a rifle with a smoothbore when a 'fowling piece' always seems so much more elegant and comfortable.

 

[George]

I doubt they were used for the same job.

Spence

 

[Elnathan]

Smoothrifles were made in Germany before they were made in America. Shumway and Wolf illustrate a few in their books on jaeger rifles.

I think that it is possible that smoothrifles were just generic smoothbores in the German tradition as opposed to the Anglo-French tradition - The Germans made a lot of their dedicated fowling pieces with half-stocks, quite distinct from their full-stocked rifles. When they wanted a smoothbore intended primarily for a single projectile, they often/usually stocked it as a rifle (though often without a patchbox).

I think that smoothrifles might be intended to fill the same basic role as a fusil. A lot of the New England fowlers have small smooth bores and heavy barrels, similar to a smoothrifle, though without the rear sight and rifle architecture, and were evidently intended for use with a single ball.