Want to learn as much as I can about my TC Rifle

[1ShotScott]

This is my first post on this forum so I will just explain my situation. I am relatively new to flintlock shooting and just received a TC Firestorm for my birthday. I had a lot of money saved up to buy a TC Hawken or a Lyman Great Plains, but you can't look a gift horse in the mouth. (can't look a gift rifle down the barrel?)

I am a college student who loves deer hunting so much that I look forward to the day after Christmas (the first day of flintlock in PA) more than Christmas. Anyway, at first I was a little worried about the Firestorm (not liking the synthetic stock and no set trigger), but now am thinking that the ease of cleaning might make up for all of that. The past two years I have loved shooting/hunting with my uncle's TC Hawken except for a bunch of misfires when hunting in wet snow. I have been using FFF for the charge and FFFF in the pan, usually packing the pan to the brim (from what I've read this is totally wrong).

My specific questions are:

1. Does this gun work better with round balls or TC maxi balls? I would say that I'm more of a patched round ball guy and would much prefer to shoot them unless there is a significant difference in accuracy.

2. I am not home (I go to school in Louisiana) so I can't shoot it until Thanksgiving, but will the lack of set trigger make the trigger pull unbearable? I've read on other posts that TC is good about repairing that sometimes?

3. Is there anything that is remarkably different between shooting the TC Hawken and the TC Firestorm?

4. If you have experience with the TC Firestorm (which I know might be a little shameful), are there any general tips or things you like about it that I should know?

5. My plan right now is to use real black powder FFFF in the pan and FFF down the barrel with a round ball and a pre-lubricated patch. If you have any recommended changes, I will definitely try them. You guys are experts! Also what size of load would you suggest?


I lack a general knowledge of flintlock hunting but over the past two years have read all I can. The first year I just hunted it to get back into the woods, but I can promise you, I won't miss a season! (There's something about hunting with a flintlock in the bitter cold that warms the soul.)

Thanks in advance for the help. From all I've read on this forum, you guys are great and when I'm old and have money, I'll consult some of you again and buy a beautiful custom made rifle, but for now I'm going to make the best shots I can with the gun I've got!

 

[peter hawbaker]

I do not use the set trigger while hunting even on guns so equipped. I find that in hunting situations, I shoot better without using it. I hunted for close 20 years in PAs late flintlock season with a TC Renegade, killed a lot (13 to be exact) of deer with it. I retired it, and now hunt with a longrifle I built, and I did not use a set trigger in my build. Long story short, the lack of a set trigger is a good thing for a hunting gun, in my opinion. Just one less thing to worry about, and a deer can hear the "click" of a trigger setting. With a single trigger, a flinter can be cocked silently.

The main difference between shooting the Hawken and the Firestorm is the amount of drop at the comb. The Firestorms have a lot of drop, and do not fit me well at all. I have never shot one, but to see through the sights requires me to lift my head so that I do not have a good cheekweld on the stock.

The faster twist of the Firestorm may not handle round balls as well especially with heavier hunting charges, but that is something you will have to try yourself, it may work.

 

[MSW]

welcome to the forum, and welcome to rock banging!

as regards your questions:

1. Does this gun work better with round balls or TC maxi balls? I would say that I'm more of a patched round ball guy and would much prefer to shoot them unless there is a significant difference in accuracy.

I don't know, and, to be blunt, neither do any of the self appointed armchair experts. only your rifle knows. The 1:48 twist in the barrels of just about all T/C rifles are a compromise between patch roundball and 'maxi' ball or some other elongated bullet. The short answer is to take the rifle to the range, shoot a bunch of PRB (Patch Round Ball) and see how it groups ... I tried maxi ball some time ago, and couldn't make it go, so I went back to PRB. I'd stick to PRB for deer ... remember that with flintlocks (or any other muzzle loader) you have to get close, and shot placement has to be spot - on ... this ain't your grandpa's 30.06 ... take it to the range, be patient, and spend as much trigger time with it as you can ... you'll need at least a few hundred rounds through it before the barrel settles in... the rifle will tell you what it likes: do what works for you.

2. I am not home (I go to school in Louisiana) so I can't shoot it until Thanksgiving, but will the lack of set trigger make the trigger pull unbearable? I've read on other posts that TC is good about repairing that sometimes?

I never saw the unset trigger on my Renegade as 'unbearable,' but triggers are very personal tools, and what I might find perfectly fine, another might deem complete junk. Again, you will have to get some range time and see what works best for you, but I doubt that the trigger will be unusable.


3. Is there anything that is remarkably different between shooting the TC Hawken and the TC Firestorm?
I've never shot a Firestorm, so I don't know.


4. If you have experience with the TC Firestorm (which I know might be a little shameful), are there any general tips or things you like about it that I should know?
Having never fired one, I can't speak to the specifics. there are a boatload of tips and tricks on this site which will prevent you from making rookie mistakes and generally shorten the learning curve.

5. My plan right now is to use real black powder FFFF in the pan and FFF down the barrel with a round ball and a pre-lubricated patch. If you have any recommended changes, I will definitely try them. You guys are experts! Also what size of load would you suggest?

I was surprised when I 'googled' your rifle and found that T/C intends that you use those dreadful pellets of pyrodex. As my daughters said when they were teenagers: EEEEEEWW!!! Here's my opinion: pyrodex is fine for caplock guns, but I don't think it's any good for flintlock guns. It fires at a much higher temperature, and when I tried it in my Renegade, it didn't work at all ... took four or five flash in the pan exercises before I figured out what was going on, dribbled some 4F into the main charge, and finally got it to go off... whaddabummer! ... You idea of using real Plack powder in you flintlock rifle is a good one, and you should stick with it. Additionally, you may have one of those cut agate thingies in your lock. I would recommend that you get some proper black English flints (I get mine from Track of the Wolf) and put them right in - if your using that agate thing, you'll be amazed at the increase in spark. I don't remember the size, but if you call the folks at Track, they will tell you how to figure it out.

You don't have to use 4F in the pan ... this comes close to 'urban legend' but many folks 'prime from the horn' and it works fine ... one less thing to fuss with when you're in the field. As a 'rule of thumb,' starting load for a muzzle loader is about one and a half the caliber in grains, thus, if you have a fifty caliber rifle, you would start with a seventy five grain charge. (remember, grains in this deal is volumetric, and if you don't have an adjustable powder measure, you should get one).

Never pour powder from the horn right into the barrel, even if you have a cut- off spout on your horn. It's very dangerous and will get you thrown off any well run range.

you may want to consider the following purchase:
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

this is Dutch Schoultz' system and is probably the most cost efficient money I've ever spent of guns or gun stuff. It will walk you through how to get the tightest groups possible out of your rifle.


good luck, don't hesitate to ask questions, and

make good smoke! :grin:

 

[BrownBear]

You already have great advice, so I'll only contribute a couple of points.

If you haven't shot a flintlock much, start doing so as soon as you get home. Extra shooting practice really pays off on hunts.

While you're dinking with the gun at the range, try using the 3f in the pan rather than 4f. I'm an old geezer with old geezer reflexes, but I really can't tell the difference between the two in the pan. Only reason I bring it up, I prefer simple on hunts, and only packing and dispensing one type of powder is easier for me.

 

[Billnpatti]

"......make the best shots I can with the gun I've got."

Now, those are words of wisdom. That is what we all should do.

I have never shot a Firestorm so I cannot answer all of your questions but I will tackle a few of them. First, you don't need, nor should you, fill your pan to the max. You only need about 3 to 5 grains of 4f in your pan. You can get a priming flask that has a metering spout so you won't overfill your pan. They are a great thing to have. A man by the name of Larry Pletcher did some ultra high speed photography studies of the best place to position your pan charge relative to the touch hole. His findings were that it is best to bank your powder next to the touch hole but not obstructing it. This gave the fastest ignition.

Never having fired a Firestorm, I cannot tell you anything about its trigger. I have shot several T/C rifles and all seem to have very reasonable triggers. I suspect that your Firestorm will probably have a trigger pull in the range of 5 pounds but that is just a guess.

Again, I cannot give you any comparisons between a T/C Hawken and a Firestorm since I know nothing about the Firestorm.

A good hunting load for your rifle will most likely be in the range of 70 to 80 grains of 3f black powder but that is something you will have to determine. Each rifle is diferent so you cannot say that's just because someone else's rifle shoots best with, say, 75 grains of 3f, that yours will, too. It just takes some time at the shooting bench with your rifle to determine such things as which patch thickness it likes. Which lube it it's preference and what powder charge will give you the beat accuracy. There are as many different lubes as there are people to tell you about them. It seems that everyone has their favorite lube. My rifles seem to do well with straight Balistol on the patches or a product called Bore Butter. All I can tell you is to do as much reading as you can about patch lubes and then give some a try to see what works best for you. One word of warning.....since you hunt in pretty cold country, do not use a lube that has water in it because it can freeze in your bore. One example is plain old spit. Yeah, the stuff in your mouth. It is a wonderful lube when shooting at the range because you don't leave it in your bore for extended periods of time but it ain't worth a damn when sitting in a stand for extended periods of time. Another extremely valuable bit of advice is to spend $20 and buy a copy of Dutch Schoultz' Black powder Accuracy System. It is, without a doubt, the best $20 you can spend on your muzzleloading hobby. Buy it, read it thoroughly and follow his instructions religiously and you will have your rifle shooting better than you can ever imagine.

I don't know what the rifling twist rate is on your Firestorm so I don't know if it will shoot MaxiBalls well. I also don't know if it will shoot patched round balls well but since it is a flintlock, I would expect that it has a slow rate of twist that is best for patched round balls. besides, .50 cal. patched round balls will be sufficient to take any deer that you happen to run across but keep all your shots under 100 yards. A muzzleloader, like a bow, is a short range weapon. They are not long range weapons so don't try to make it one. If you want, or need, to take long range (> 100 yards) you need to change to a modern weapon such as a .270, .308, .30-06, etc. :hatsoff:

 

[Billnpatti]

I want to clarify what I said about the positioning of the powder in the pan. What you want is to bank the majority of the powder next to the touch hole but you need to spread part of the charge in the bottom of the pan to better catch the sparks. If all of your charge in banked next to the touch hole, you will be minimizing the surface area of your charge and there will be less powder to catch the sparks. Bank most of your charge next to the touch hole and trail the rest out into the pan.

I also forgot to address the issue of patch thickness. To be a good patch material, it needs to be 100% cotton or linen. Since cotton is more readily available and much less expensive, it will most likely be the material that you will choose. The weave must be tight. A loose weave will make a very bad patch. Pillow ticking is a popular material but it may or may not work in your gun. I prefer to use a material called "pocket drill" that I buy from Jo-Ann's Fabrics. After washing, it has a compressed thickness of .011 and an uncompressed thickness of .018. It makes a very good patch for my rifles when I use a ball that is .010 smaller than bore size. For your rifle, that would be a .490 ball. But that is my rifle, you will have to figure out what your rifle likes.

You will need to buy an inexpensive micrometer from some place like Sears or Harbor Freight. Get the kind that looks like a C clamp. You will need to take it to the fabric shop when you go. Select several different thicknesses of material. Buy only the minimum amount they will sell you and after you decide what the best thickness is for your rifle, you can go back and buy several yards of it. All of this is covered in Dutch Schoultz' material. Be sure to buy a copy, you will be very happy that you did.

 

[Black Jack]

Lots of good advice here. Just to put your mind at ease about shooting round balls, the 1:48" twist in the Firestorm is perfectly OK. It's considered by many to be a "compromise" twist for shooting well with either round balls or conicals. In fact, a lot of rifles, Hawkens included, from the 1800's were made with the 1:48 twist. I have had a couple of TCs and they shot very will with balls. The rifling on most TCs is a little on the shallow side, however, so the largest powder charges may not shoot quite as well as with a lesser charge.....you just have to experiment a little. You will find it perfectly adequate for hunting. As some wise people here have stated, there is no substitute for shooting your individual rifle to see what works best. After all, that's part of the real fun!

 

[Rifleman1776]

Lot of good replies so far. I can't see all your questions so will just make a couple comments.
The 1:48" twist is probably the most common over the centuries. It works just fine for prb. I'm glad to see you are going for the more traditional real black powder and patched round ball. Do shoot as much as you can before hunting season. Have spare flints and learn how to prime for yourself. I prefer a thin line of 4Fg spread across the bottom of the pan. Keep us updated on your experiences and learning curve. Good luck. :thumbsup:

 

[Roguedog]

First of all, glad to have you with us here on this board. Some great guys and gals with a lot of knowledge. Second, I agree that you don't stare a gift gun down the barrel. Third, I have a rifle, not a TC, with a 1:48 twist and mine shoots roundball deadly accurate once I found what it liked. I settled on 70 grains of 3F with a .015 patch lubed with Track of the Wolf's Mink Oil patch lube. My gun does not like it at all when I go above 70 grains but I figure 70 grains of 3F is more than enough. Good luck and keep asking questions.

Jeff

 

[1ShotScott]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. You guys are great. I will definitely be reading Dutch Schoultz' book, and if I have any questions after that, I will create another post. Thanks again and I'll let you guys know how it goes once I start shooting again. College is really hindering my shooting/hunting.

 

[Dr5x]

Billnpatti.
Your statement about "banking your powder next to the touch hole" may create a minor misunderstanding. The powder should never cover the touch hole because that creates a wicking effect sort of like a fuse that has to burn its way to the touch hole.
The touch hole should be open so that the FLASH of the pan powder can squirt down the touch hole.
Both methods will fire the rifle but the method with the uncovered touch hole is appreciably faster.
Or so I have been told.

Dutch

 

[Rifleman1776]

The touch hole should be open so that the FLASH of the pan powder can squirt down the touch hole.
Both methods will fire the rifle but the method with the uncovered touch hole is appreciably faster.

Amen, Bro. That is what us old timers believe and adhere to.
It is a differential action similar to a Venturi effect.

 

[Roguedog]

I hear you. I was a practicing civil engineer for years until I decided I hated it and have been back in school for a few years now studying to be a nurse practitioner. I know all about school work cutting into hunting and shooting time. It can be frustrating but hang in there and take your opportunities when you get em'.

Jeff

 

[1ShotScott]

Yeah I'm majoring in Biomedical Engineering and Math so I can tell you all about the fluid mechanics of the gas compressing in the gun barrel while the projectile is accelerating, but I don't have anywhere to go out and do it! I miss shooting and hunting more than anything.