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horsetrader

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I used 3 underlug with pins in my southern rifle.
How much of a "slot" compared to just a hole do you need to make sure forestock doesn't crack when expanding /contracting? Barrel lengh 43 inch.
Whats the best way cutting the slot....
 
Aprox. 1/32" fore & aft is usually adequate. I use the tip of a tiny round file. And I have hogged them out a tad with the lil 1/16" drill bit.. and broken allot of bits in the process....... :grin: That's why I buy them in packs of 12.... :grin: Have tried cutting them out with a jewelers saw, which normally means breaking the blade before I can get it mounted back in the saw.... :shake:
However for the past ? 25 + rifles I used a slotted underlug & if I hit the slot perfectly I don't have to file them. Usually will hit 2 sometimes 3 out of 4 dead on. Never have hit all 4 perfectly. On the slotted I can stick a lil halfround diamond file in the slot & file a few strokes & it is done. MUCH better & MUCH easier to deal with.
:thumbsup:
 
There are old original guns whose forearms have split apart as much as 1/8" over the years. I would suspect many of these spent time hanging over over fire places however, after being retired from use. Drastic changes in humidity can cause a noticable shrinkage or growth change in the length of a longrifle, and affect accuracy, if the slot is not sufficient. I like a bit more slot than Rich, just to be sure, but his are probably enough to take care the situation. I am just a tad paranoid about this. My first longrifle was not slotted at all, and was changing POI every time I took it out for a shooting session. Sloting the lug holes corrected that problem immediately.
 
Not having dismantled any originals, the question arises as to how many had elongated bbl lug slots and how many had separated forends? To be on the safe side, I elongate the holes by approx. .04 per side and use a tiny cutter in a Dremel to remove most of the brass or steel and finish up the slot w/ very small needle files. Also the same amount of end clearance has to be made for the lug itself....Fred
 
I'd say it was very rare to have an old gun with slotted tenons.

However, I do slot them. The front ones anyway, I leave the rear one alone. After drilling through and fitting a pin, I drill another undersized hole fore and aft of the first hole in each tenon, and use a jeweler's saw to cut it out, and then I have some small flat files I made up out of ignition point files to clean it all up and get the pin to slide back and forth...without being loose up and down. Be careful, because you definitely don't want to file away the bottom of the tenon slot, as this will make the barrel loose. You can file towards the barrel, though, and the pin will still draw the barrel down tight...if that makes any sense.

Wood that is straight through the fore end will NOT expand nor contract over it's length. If you have walnut or plain maple where the grain runs fairly well straight with the fore end, slotting is not necessary at all. If there's any curl at all though (or if the grain is angled in the fore end, even a little), you'll be glad you slotted the tenons. Curl is basically cross grain stacked up down the length of the stock, and it will definitely expand and contract across the grain.

Years ago, I was building a gun, and I had all the tenons fitted and drilled and everything. This was done in unusually good weather for us. Low humidity, like 35% during the day. Nice. Well, I set it aside in the shop, and a few days later, I came back to work on it some more. In the meantime, our normal weather returned, and it was 95 degrees and 60% humidity. The tenon holes did not line up, and the fore end of the stock was about 1/32" longer than it was a few days earlier!! Since then, I always slotted the tenons.
 
Chris: Nice post. You explain the real problem well. To many people, 1/32" does not sound like much. But when you are fitting pins through holes in a rifle stock, and they have to go through a hole in the barrel " hangers", that is a HUGE amount of change. That kind of shrinkage and expansion( swelling) of wood over the life of the wood occurs whether there is high humidity, or less, and regardless of the stock finish used.


About the only way to stop this kind of expansion is by using a laminated wood stock, where the laminates are layered so that they pull against each other.

Over the long life of a rifle, this kind of expansion can take place as the wood ages, too. Using a good stock finish, and wood sealer, particularly on end grain, will SLOW the process, so that it will take many years longer before you see this kind of aging on the stock. But, it won't stop the changes all together.

A good friend of mine built a CVA mountain rifle out of a kit, back in the 1970s, and he put the gun aside in his gun closet over the winter. Winters are very dry here, and when he took the gun out the next spring, to shoot again, he was horrified to learn that the balls were going all over the place. At 50 yds, off the bench, with a cold barrel, he could hit the paper somewhere close to the bullseye- whereas the prior Fall, when he zeroed the rifle, he was making a small group in the 10-X ring! His second and subsequent shots out of a warming barrel didn't even hit the paper!

I arrived at about this time, and after a discussion, he decided to take the barrel out of the stock to see if something was wrong there. He barely could get the closer of the two keys out of its slot with a hammer! When he removed both keys, and then tried to put them back, he could not get the closer key to go into its slot at all. In fact, the stock was so warped, that it was visible to us, when we finally looked. AND, you could not see day light through that keyway. He put the forward key in the stock to hold the barrel and stock together, and fired some more shots. They were all in the X ring again.

The Stock had been cut from fairly green wood, it appears, and it dried out and warped over the winter, and then in the rising humidity of the next Spring. He took the gun home, filled the screw holes for his escutcheons, relocated them, and then recut the keyways in the stock. Only a little bit of filing was done on the dovetail slots in the barrel, and on the keys themselves to make them fit in and remove easier.
 
a 32nd of an inch is a LOT of difference! Might as well be a mile when your pins won't line up! :(

I have some walnut stocks that are pretty straight in the fore end, the tenons aren't slotted, and they're perfectly fine, but if there's ANY cross grain at all, you would do well to slot them tenons. :wink:
 
A hole on each side of the first one drilled, then remove the bridges separating them (using 5/64" finish nails)? Just a guess by this first-build newbie.
 

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