Unacceptable kit condition?

[Eric Krewson]

All I can say is having done two plank builds and two precarves I would opt for a plank build with the barrel inletted and ramrod hole drilled by a SKILLED craftsman over any kit on the planet except a Kibler.

Like Dave said; you are going to learn a lot about gun building by fixing the mistakes on an average precarve kit, this is why I will opt for a plank build in the future. I could have built 3 plank builds in the time it took me took straighten out all the garbage that came with my precarve from hell kit.

 

[Reno]

Looks fine to me. As many gavecssid there are no surprises here. This is not a “in the white “ kit. So you are expected to finish the work. This saves you money. Almost every firm who puts these type kits out there is capable of sending you a kit that is almost ready for sanding and finishing. But that costs money. And when you do that you are approaching or exceed the costs of a kibler.
I enjoy the work it takes to get to a finished rifle. You learn quite a bit in fitting everything together.
but in this “ I want it now society” ibgetvthe need for an almost finished piece. I sure have made mistakes but I try to learn from them.
Just my two cents.

 

[tenngun]

We all want a perfect rifle, and many were made in the past. However we see a lot of originals with big mistakes. I saw a gun with a belly plate on it, no not a belly plate but a cover over where the ramrod hole had been cut through the belly
I’ve seen misaligned nose caps and poorly fitted butt plate
Deep dishes in the wood to cover up what was a chip and so on

 

[Bergmann]

Plenty of wood to work with and the inletting is only a rough start. I would consider it typical of many kits. After a Kibler everything will seem crude.

I’ve received and put together one kit which was a Kibler. The gun turned out great. I’ve also had a kit on order since February and it finally arrived. I won’t say where this kit was ordered from at this time.

I unbox the new kit and wondered if this is acceptable? Seems like careless handling and inletting to me, but wanted to run it by you forum members to gather your thoughts
View attachment 103274View attachment 103275View attachment 103276View attachment 103277View attachment 103278View attachment 103279

Pretty much the standard for kit guns! The idea behind them being that one has the skills to finish the work! Kibler's kits, as I've been told not having seen one yet, are for those who lack the basic skills. They cost more and you get what you pay for!

 

[Bergmann]

We all want a perfect rifle, and many were made in the past. However we see a lot of originals with big mistakes. I saw a gun with a belly plate on it, no not a belly plate but a cover over where the ramrod hole had been cut through the belly
I’ve seen misaligned nose caps and poorly fitted butt plate
Deep dishes in the wood to cover up what was a chip and so on

Those little things are what make a hand built gun unique! Darn few original guns were built to the spec's many folks consider as standard today, or even close to them!

 

[rafterob]

Agree with the others, you have a typical "kit". After much advice seeking, on my first build I opted for a precarve stock with only the barrel channel cut and the ramrod hole drilled. All other inletting was left to me. That worked out real well.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

My first kit was a barrel, a canvas bag containing a lock, rough castings and a piece of sheet brass accompanied by a plank. Your kit is miles above what was typical back in the day.

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

Not wanting to derail this thread,

But as I've said before I've found kiblers communication poor, last two emails never received a reply. I heard from another Aussie since that they're refusing to send their kits here because they don't want to stamp Serial numbers on the barrel.

Next in line would be a chambers, would their kits be similar to what has been shown here in this thread?

 

[Eric Krewson]

The "P" place does a lot of precarves for other folks kits. Although I have not bought a Chambers kit yet, it is my understanding that Chambers precarves are a bit more refined with less flaws than the standard precarve from other places.

Perhaps someone who has completed a Chamber kit could chime in and verify what I have heard about these kits.

 

[olskool]

i bought a kit a couple of years ago from a well known company. i gave it to a fried of mine to fit. he had already started whittling on it when he told me the ramrod entry hole was way out of whack! it was beautiful when done but i couldn't live with it, somebody else could so i let them have it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[flintlock00]

I have assembled 3 Chambers kits- their American Pistol, Haines Rifle, and Pa. Fowler (with rifled barrel). I found them without significant flaws, or really any issues requiring a lot of fixing. You still have to do quite a lot of fitting and inletting as some locations for inlets are only spotted in. Stock shaping is still needed, but not as much as the Thread Initiator's example. It does pay to contact the provider and ask specific questions about what you are receiving before you place your order so you are not surprised. These kits were builds no's 2,4, and 5 for me. The Dixon book is a must have for help in my experience, and the other Internet videos available on line often supplement for additional insight. As has been said in other threads, you learn gun building from these kits, Kibler is the exception.

 

[Sidney Smith]

If you want a gun quick, buy a Kibler kit. If you want to learn something, buy any other kit.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Yep, buy a lock, a barrel and go to a saw mill and buy a plank. That was the second build I did.

 

[M. De Land]

Yep, buy a lock, a barrel and go to a saw mill and buy a plank. That was the second build I did.

The one thing I have never done and need to learn how is boring a loading rod hole in a stock and getting it right. For me the metal work (dovetail cutting, breach plug threading and fitting, furniture finishing , spring making, browning and case coloring is easy but the wood inletting and close fitting, more challenging.
You can have all the metal perfectly fit and finished and all the trinket crow bait one can find, plastered all over gun but if the wood to metal fit and architecture is manure so will be the finished rifle.
A well built rifle will balance and feel right in the hands as soon as it's picked up and if the fit, finish and color mate up with the feel then one has a fine rifle in all respects. One mans opinion .

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The one thing I have never done and need to learn how is boring a loading rod hole in a stock and getting it right. For me the metal work (dovetail cutting, breach plug threading and fitting, furniture finishing , spring making, browning and case coloring is easy but the wood inletting and close fitting, more challenging.
You can have all the metal perfectly fit and finished and all the trinket crow bait one can find, plastered all over gun but if the wood to metal fit and architecture is manure so will be the finished rifle.
A well built rifle will balance and feel right in the hands as soon as it's picked up and if the fit, finish and color mate up with the feel then one has a fine rifle in all respects. One mans opinion .

I put together 2 kits, then I bought Chuck Dixon's book. I bought a kit from Ron Griffie and then next worked with the saw mill plank. Though they say do not use power tools, I designed my own vise out of angle iron and was able to use a router to cut the barrel channel and the ram rod channel back to the place where it enters to stock. From there, I used a long drill, but had drilled guide holes at a few places from the bottom of the barrel channel near the breech. Once the barrel was inlet and pinned, I could place the lock properly. Chuck Dixon's book will even show how to make some of the tools.

 

[springfield art]

I’ve received and put together one kit which was a Kibler. The gun turned out great. I’ve also had a kit on order since February and it finally arrived. I won’t say where this kit was ordered from at this time.

I unbox the new kit and wondered if this is acceptable? Seems like careless handling and inletting to me, but wanted to run it by you forum members to gather your thoughts
View attachment 103274View attachment 103275View attachment 103276View attachment 103277View attachment 103278View attachment 103279

Holy mololly! Pack that up and send back immediately. Get total refund. Don't order from company again.
!

 

[kje54]

Hi,
That kit looks fine. You will actually learn and develop some gun making skills building it.

dave

Many, many moons ago I bought for my first flintlock kit a Pecatonica Fussil kit. One thing I learned was I don't have the patience for those type of "kits"........ Someone else now owns it and is finishing it.

 

[Trot]

I guess this could be a learning experience for many. Anyone who finds this unacceptable should not order a kit from any of the major sellers other than Kibler because this is exactly what you should expect to get. Pecatonica, Track of the Wolf, Muzzleloader Builder's supply, etc. What you are ordering is an assemblage of parts and a roughed out stock that you need to make into a gun. There is a ton of wood that needs to be removed from the stock for proper shaping, and fitting of parts. holes need to be drilled and tapped, dovetails cut, etc. They are not and don't claim to be a fully shaped and finished ready to put together "kit". They are quite an advanced project. While this is not the kind of project for everyone, there is not a thing wrong with the one pictured here. If you are not up to the task, and there is nothing wrong with that, it just isn't for you.

 

[FlinterNick]

Looks good to me, get to work !