TVM Fur Trade?

[Hallmark55]

:thumbsup:

 

[Spikebuck]

I wish my pictures were better, but here's two original JJ Henry rifles through the case glass at the Museum of the Fur Trade (middle two. Left is the English Pattern and right is the Scroll Guard

 

[hanshi]

In my limited knowledge of the fur trade era, I'd say it appears correct. The rifle pictured is gorgeous. I'm 5'4" and have mostly 38" rifles, three of which have swamped barrels; swamped is what you want if for no other reason than the superior handling qualities. My longest rifle was ordered with a 42" tube. You also get to specify any barrel you like; I have two with Rice barrels and a Green Mountain.

 

[Alaskan Woodsman]

OOOoo! Getting closer, ain't we?

 

[plmeek]

It appears this thread has changed from talking about TVM trade rifles to recommending JJ Henry Artificers' trade rifles.

Below are some pictures of one of JJ Henry Artificers' Old English trade rifles. This one was built by Larry Walker. It has a .54 caliber, 43" long, slightly swamped barrel. I believe the barrel profile is close to the original in the Museum of the Fur Trade collection (pictured above). It's 1.06" at the breech, about 0.84" at the waist, and 0.94" at the muzzle. It has 6 grooves and lands which, I think, makes it a Colerain barrel.

The lock is a custom lock created by Larry Walker. This is the correct 6" lock for this pattern rifle, and JJ Henry Artificers are the only ones that has it. (Ron Paull created molds for a similar 6" lock, but they're no longer available.) Anyone else that tries to build one of these invariably ends up using a 5" lock such as the Chambers Late Ketland or the L&R Late English.

This rifle is as close to an original J.J. Henry Old English trade rifle as you can get.

Phil Meek

 

[BigBoreBLR]

If you are doing reenactment. It's ok to show up with an older than the period rifle, than a newer for the period rifle.

IF this is for reenacting, find the group you like. You might be more enjoying the people, what activities, their frequency and location, and in what level or correctness more than a particular old period.

IF you're just getting a kind of old rifle to shoot that you like, get hte one you like.

TVM mostly makes a straight barrel. A swamp barrel is thinner in the middle section. Long straight barrels are heavy.... A bigger bore and/or bigger flat sized barrel will be more appreciated in 36" than 42". I'd say 42" max in 50 cal 7/8ths or 45 cal 13/16ths. Weight slows the sway down. It also makes you sway more due to being nose heavy.

In general, if your shooting 54 cal or bigger, or going for high velocity, the guns with a more generous butt plate area are better. Early lancaster, Early virginia, reading rifle are good.

In las vegas you will not be wearing much when shooting. Curved buttplates in t-shirts can have issues.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Curved buttplates in t-shirts can have issues.

I see. I don't so much recall being it too big a deal with my Lyman's plains rifle.

I think I would choose .50 caliber for this. Balls are easily located and are relatively inexpensive and it can be used up to and including deers and pigs. In Las Vegas, few such animals reside, only in pieces at the local supermarket. The random scorpion or tarantula needn't a .50 to be put to rest.

I'll mostly be target shooting, and the strong desert winds can certainly whip about here, so I would expect the .50 to buck them rightly and produce good results on targets.

I amn't a reenactor, as most/many are here. I am interested in the guns, the accouterments, and above all, the shooting. I don't believe one needs an entire expensive outfit and a "persona" or "character" to enjoy these guns.

 

[Kansas Jake]

That J.J. Henry Articifers' rifle is sure pretty.

 

[lowcsp]

The lock is the hardest thing to get right on these guns the lock that JJ Henry Artificers use is the best out there but I have a problem getting these locks so thats why I use the chambers late ketland lock and the rifle shop has most of the hardware this is one of the scroll guards that I build

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

A real beaut!!

 

[Alaskan Woodsman]

Phil Meek, thanks again for the interesting information. Everyone else's comments are also much appreciated. Glen

 

[plmeek]

The lock is the hardest thing to get right on these guns...thats why I use the chambers late ketland lock and the rifle shop has most of the hardware this is one of the scroll guards that I build.

Steve,

You build a very nice Scroll Guard. I also like some of the other rifles and guns on your website, Losey Firearms .

These rifles were originally built with a 5" lock, so the Chambers late Ketland lock is appropriate for the Henry Scroll Guard and the Lancaster pattern trade rifles.

You could take your authenticity to the next level by modifying the cock on the Chambers Ketland to a "breasted" cock. Here are several images I found on the internet of the type of lock and cock often found on these trade rifles. These locks were generally English made and often referred to today as "warranted" locks because that was often stamped on the lock plate. They are easily recognized by the "breasted" cock and the style of engraving on the lock plate and cock that they exhibit.

The locks with the point on the tail are an earlier style, but there is significant overlap of styles as the older locks continued to be made for the export market long after they went out of style in England.

Below is the J Henry lock that The Rifle Shoppe makes and goes with their Henry Scroll Guard kit. It may have been cast from the same lock shown in the upper left corner of the previous image--the lock held in the hand--it's just like it.

Your rifles are definitiely an option for anyone that wants an authentic looking trade rifle.

Phil Meek

 

[Alaskan Woodsman]

JJ Artificers, and a Mr. Walker recommended I contact one of the builders in The Contemporary Longrifle builders list to build one of the J. Henry rifles you have depicted. Those rifles are indeed beautiful in your post Mr. Meek.

 

[sass2924]

Is this the same lock they use on the J Henry English Kit?

Below is the J Henry lock that The Rifle Shoppe makes and goes with their Henry Scroll Guard kit. It may have been cast from the same lock shown in the upper left corner of the previous image--the lock held in the hand--it's just like it.

Phil Meek

 

[plmeek]

Yes, the Rifle Shoppe uses that same lock on the Henry Scroll Guard and on the Henry English kits.

It's correct for the Lancaster pattern and the Scroll Guard, but should be a larger 6" lock on the Henry English trade rifle.

 

[sass2924]

Is the Davis Trade lock the closet lock to 6”. I think it’s just a little over 6.

 

[plmeek]

The Davis Trade Gun lock, the one for a Northwest Trade Gun, is just over 6".

It's not available right now and may not be available again. I believe it's one of the locks cast by Pete Allen who is all but shutdown due to age and health issues.

 

[sass2924]

Any dealers still have one in stock or are they all dried up?

 

[lowcsp]

Thanks for your comments I try to use a lot of the rifle shops hardware and locks I have one on the bench right now. The reason I use the chambers lock is, it is sooooo much faster an easier to get but I would like to find a place that has the correct cock that will work on a chambers lock dont know if the one on the rifle shops lock would work.

 

[Elkeater]

What caliber and bbl length would be appropriate?

Would a 38" bbl be too short? I am not so tall (5' 7") so wouldn't want an awkwardly long bbl.

What would the fur trade men use in terms of caliber?

When I was planning to have a rifle built, 2 builders agreed that a custom should come to the curl of your bottom lip.