Turner Kirkland derringer question

[ramblin man]

I have out of state customer wanting me to find him a nipple for a .41 cal Turner Kirkland derringer. So I dont have the little pistol in hand. I cant find a nipple size in my reference books and Dixie Gun Works claims they dont have this info. Does any one know offhand what size nipple this derringer uses? Thanks

 

[Don]

Try to find out if the pistol was made in Spain or Italy. The pistols made in those countries tend to have a nipple with a standard size thread. The Spanish one might be different than the Italian one. If it is Spanish then a nipple from another Spanish pistol should have the same thread size likewise with the Italian one. You may need to alter the length of the nipple by filing it down a bit.

Don

 

[Zonie]

Ask your customer to take the existing nipple to a good Hardware or Auto Parts store and have them measure the threads.

They are probably metric but on some of these old guns, one never knows for sure until it is measured.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I've found that the Treso/Ampco nipple inventory page(s) at https://www.jedediah-starr.com/ to be a good resource, they list everything Treso makes, and I'm familiar with some marked "Old Italian" vs "New Italian", so they may also indicate an appropriate nipple for the Kirkland/Dixie or Italian / or Spanish applications.

 

[ramblin man]

Thanks to all. I was shocked that Dixie Gun Works told me in an offhand manner that they had no idea because it was old. When Mr. Kirkland was there he would have known immediately and launched into the story of how he had these made, the when and where. He loved the derringers and was the ultimate authority on them.(Southern Derringers of the Mississippi Valley) I was fortunate enough to meet Turner several times back in the day. He was a gentleman and always had time to talk to you, especially about the 'little guns'. I'm ramblin...thanks again and Regards, RamblinMan

 

[BillinOregon]

Hope you can find what you need, RM. Thanks for sharing that memory of Turner Kirkland. I would have loved to have met the man.

 

[Rifleman1776]

DGW used to be a repository of that kind of information. Sad they have changed.
Many, if not almost all, of those little derringers were made in Spain. I used to sell the kits in my shop super-cheap in the 1970s.
I think the best bet is for your friend to send his existing nipple to TOW and ask for a couple to match it. That will take guess-work out of the equation.

 

[Berkley]

RM, here's a scan of the listing for Turner Kirkland's .41 caliber Deringer from the 1996 DGW catalog - featuring Turner on the cover.

Nipple size is shown as 6mm x .75

 

[Rifleman1776]

That price and the current, near $500.00 price is incredible. :shocked2:
As I recall, my kits, most were CVA, sold for $29.95. Even with inflation they would not be $300.00 to $500.00 today.

 

[ZUG]

I purchased two of the completely assembled derringer from Dixie Gun Works in the mid 70's for $39.95 each. They were from Spain and were smooth bore not rifled. The inlays (looked chrome plated) were nailed on and not inlet.

 

[Zonie]

Looking at the Dixie Gunworks catalog of 1980 tells me those $29-$39 Derringers were the Spanish made CVA's.

They are a far cry from the high priced .41 caliber "Lincoln Derringer" that is offered in the same catalog.

The Lincoln Derringer in the 1980 catalog was priced at $132.50

Interestingly, right below the Lincoln Derringer is another .41 caliber "Philadelphia Derringer for only $39.95.
It doesn't say who made these but in the style of the Dixie catalogs of the day the description says,
"...The barrel is blued and the lockplate is made of polished brass. Now some of the other fellows sell this same gun, but they will not tell all the fact about it. I do not think it is high quality, although it is a good serviceable shooting gun. There is definitely some room for improvement in its quality. Oh yes, the stock is made of walnut. But the price is not too bad. Shipping wt. 2 lbs. Dixie Brand. "

Too bad Turner passed on and it's also too bad we don't have sales people who will give us the truth about what their selling today.

 

[ramblin man]

Thanks to all, I had the customer send me the original nipple. As some of you pointed out the early models stamped 'Turner Kirkland' were Spanish made made by CVA. I mic'd this nipple as M6x.1. It is a short revolver type nipple. Now if I can just find one. Zonie, I'm old and old school , and I agree with you about service and having the information your customers need. Like so many other things, that too seems to be gone by the wayside. But dont worry fellers, I think these new fangled cartridge guns are a passing fad. They wont ever catch on.....Thanks and regards, RamblinMan

 

[Patocazador]

TOW may not be the best source for this info. I just got two 12-28 nipples for my Patriot from them. Neither fit properly. I ran them through a 12-28 die and then they fit fine. They left a goodly amount of metal behind in the die.

Their source made at least two sloppy nipples.

 

[Zonie]

There is a metric thread size at 5.5 X 0.9mm that some mistakenly think is the same as a #12-28 thread.

The 5.5mm size major diameter can be .2165 inch in diameter but a #12 thread has a maximum diameter of .2160. That half thousandth of an inch can create an interference if the 5.5mm thread is screwed into a #12 threaded hole.

The 0.9mm pitch isn't exactly right for a 28 thread per inch thread either.

The reason I mention all of this is because I suspect some of the "#12-28 nipples" sold may have been made by someone using a M5.5 X 0.9mm die.