Tuning a Miquelet lock

[WRussell]

How does one get good sparks from a Miquelet? Should the springs be balanced like a flintlock - about 3 times as much force to cock as to flip the frizzen?
I've read that they were meant to use pyrites but that flint works as well. Since pyrite is practically unobtanium, will ferrocerium work?

The one I'm working on simply smashes flints, while the frizzen doesn't flip back so virtually no sparks make it into the pan. The toe of the frizzen rubs along the frizzen spring almost a quarter inch, so it seems the toe needs to be relocated, yes?

Any help would be appreciated.

- Bill

 

[Sam squanch]

Anyone there? Must be a phantom post, it is close to Halloween.

 

[EC121]

I would put an angle on the back of the frizzen toe to let it kick open. Then polish the spring and toe. Might try the smoothbore section. A few there have that style of lock.

 

[rickystl]

Hi Bill

Hopefully this Thread can be moved to the Pre-Flintlock Forum, even though it is tecnically a flintlock. Also, if you can post a photo or two of the lock you are working on would be a big help.

Rick

 

[WRussell]

I did grind away the back of the frizzen toe and polished the contact area. Now I think I've identified the problem: the frizzen face is a little soft. I have flintlocks with softer frizzens and because they scrape instead of smash they work great, but apparently because of the angles this one needs to be harder. I get good sparks with a new flint on the first strike, but burrs are left at the top of the travel, apparently slowing down the flint, and the frizzen won't flip open.

Before I heat treat the frizzen, I'm going to experiment some more with ferrocerium. The first piece I tried is hard to get sparks out of even when used as intended, with a scraper, but I have better stuff (one, the "Swedish Firesteel 2.0 Army", throws big fat sparks that can roll across the floor for five feet) so I'll try again.

Don't want to mess up the patina with a heat treat, even though it's just Victorian curio. Here's a photo:

- Bill

 

[Rudyard]

A Victorian Curio never meant to be fired ? Looks like a lot of work but suggests the maker never really expected it to be shot as such locks are useually very reliable locks the few I've owned all worked fine. I much doubt pyrites was ever used success fully in any such lock the poorest flint even quartz seems more likely since pyrites seems mostly very brittle stuff . Pretty affair choose what it was made to do .
Regards Rudyard

 

[WRussell]

Quite so; not intended to be fired. But I have this thing about making them spark. Often never dirty them up with black powder, sometimes let them be (cracks or other weak-looking spots, or too pricey to mess with), but usually bring them back to life.

I've wondered about pyrites in Miquelets - I've never gotten my hands on a pyrite that worked (in wheellocks).

- Bill

 

[Rudyard]

Well 'Ive made five wheellocks and hunted extensively with one but getting good pyrites was allways a battle .I've used the gold facetted stuff but it is very friable and Ive gone to glueing small bits into short bits of wood with a V cut & the rear flatted so I can have a lot in the tool box that way I've hunted as long as 10 days & slew 7 ferrol goats though you might get two shots if the pyrites hasn't shattered or broken away . Yet such as Bolec gets steady shooting with some square grey looking stuff . I conclude that pyrites like all earths mineral varies greatly and in the high days of Wheellock use a particular source was known & the product marketed widely. Much like flint was .
If others could enlighten me as to the best current source I & fellow W lock dabblers would be delighted to know.

As it is Yes for a hunt W lock fine. But at a clay shoot you would be very unpopular & deservedly derided ..Not that I shot any clays with my 45 rifle but I did shoot a match at Bisley one time got my 13 shots in 30 minets but last shot had to recourse to a hand held cigarette ! Came third . (small entry that year ) .
Cheers Rudyard

PS If you look up Pre Flintlock you will see the WL rifle in Question cheek stocked of maple with Ivory on tool box lid (Antigue piano keys ) Rudyard

 

[rickystl]

Hi Bill

That is an interesting Victorian era copy. Even thought this jailer's type key gun doesn't copy anything in particular, that's what most collectors refer to them. There is a good chance the frizzen foot and spring geometry is less than desired. And yes, the frizzen may be soft. But, as mentioned, these Victorian era copies were never made to fire. Although many were made using complete, original locks that were still in working order. A combination of new and old parts (at the time).
Anyway, good luck getting what you want from it. It's certainly one of the more interesting Victorian pieces I've see.

Rick

 

[WRussell]

An interesting thing about it is that the front of the base of the cock lands on the mainspring - it's a rebounding cock design. Whoever made it was familiar with the rebounding hammer design which I think showed up in the 2nd quarter of the 1800s and is still used today. Spanish Miquelets could have easily been made this way for as long as they were around, but I don't know of any examples. Anybody?