Traditional only

[Old Ironsights]

And I agree as well....what is disgusting is that the latest strategy taken by the bridgers/wakeman crowds is to demean and belittle the traditional side, claiming they are poor firearms to use for taking game humanely, not enough energy, not enough terminal performance, etc.

Dealing with those who propagate misleading untruths is a challenge...how do you go about doing that? How do you get people like that to shut off the intentionally misleading poison used to sway those who don't know any better?

Meh. This is just typical of the "my way only" school of hunting/shooting.

.30-30 is (or was) synonymous with (center fire) "deer rifle" in the US until the Gun Rags had to sell the latest UberShooter 3000, then suddenly it's no longer ballistically any good.

In Indiana, a .357 from a 5" Revolver is a good Deer Gun, but that same .357 from a Lever Rifle is too weak.

I can shoot deer with a Ruger Old Army revolver using a .45LC conversion Cylinder & 800fps Cowboy Loads, but I can't shoot deer with the same Ruger Old Army using BP & 200gr Conicals - with more energy than the .45LC. :youcrazy:

It's not about Ballistics or Kill Factor, but Politics. Period.

 

[Dave Poss]

When an athlete gets paid to endorse a certain shoe....He will wear that shoe regardless if it causes blisters or doesn't fit well. This, IMO, is the same situation our game law makers and some writers are in. The idea of backing sidelock or underhammer rifles for hunting when so few are being made now, is not profitable to them. Thus the big-money manufacturers of inlines...the people who can afford to pay writers and contribute to campaign funds are getting top billing!
Like many things nowadays, the "intent" of a law has been diluted and/or altered to allow for things that originally were never intended...or thought of. Due to the fact of not being able to see the future, a law is written based on current information. The "intent" of a primitive weapons season was to give those of us who shoot muzzleloaders a chance to harvest game at the necessary close range needed for a clean kill and without fear of being shot by someone 500 yards away that saw movement. With advent of "high-tech" projectiles and modern inlines, the intended Primitive season is just an extension or prelude of the regular rifle season now.Why? As several have said in other post here.....POLITICS and $$$$$$$$!!!!!

 

[Bountyhunter]

New Mexico had a muzzleloader season which is defined as a gun which has the projectile and charge loaded through the front of the muzzle. Otherwise, all other restrictions are off other than in the fine print, it does say that they have to be capable of being fired from the shoulder only.....hmmmmm, wonder what brought that on? Dont suppose some enterprising NMexican would mount a double joint of upset tubing on a pickup and fire it at an elk on the next mountain would you?

The state also has a Restricted Muzzleloader season which prohibits in-line-ignition,pelleted powder, sabots, multiple projectiles and scopes.

B

 

[Old Ironsights]

New Mexico had a muzzleloader season which is defined as a gun which has the projectile and charge loaded through the front of the muzzle. Otherwise, all other restrictions are off other than in the fine print, it does say that they have to be capable of being fired from the shoulder only.....hmmmmm, wonder what brought that on? Dont suppose some enterprising NMexican would mount a double joint of upset tubing on a pickup and fire it at an elk on the next mountain would you?

Most likely to keep people from using ML pistols like my Howda because a ML pistol just ins't powerful enough to cleanly kill anything... :youcrazy:

 

[Old Charlie]

a ML pistol just ins't powerful enough to cleanly kill anything... That little pistol seems to have done a job on ol Abe Lincoln and That Hamilton feller in the duel.
Old Charlie

 

[Old Ironsights]

a ML pistol just ins't powerful enough to cleanly kill anything... That little pistol seems to have done a job on ol Abe Lincoln and That Hamilton feller in the duel.
Old Charlie

I've got a Traditions "Buckhunter" #11 inline .50 with 12" barrel that shoots 80gr loads all day long.

My Howda throws 2 1-1/4oz 12ga slugs with authority.

My Ruger Old Army would out perform .45LC with my 200gr REAL (Conical) loads.

When it arrives, my Clement's .50 ROA will thump 5 .490 balls downrange at over 1200fps each.

Nope. A ML handgun just can't compare to a "legal" (for hunting) Centrefire Pistol gun. :youcrazy:

 

[Bountyhunter]

I have a Hawken replica companion to my rifle that I load with 50 gr of FFFg and prb. I can attest that it will punch the lights out of a two year old white tail from 20 yards yonder. However, according to the granola heads that rule the roost at the Kansas fish and game, it isnt legal. They require that ML handguns have a TEN INCH BARREL LENGTH. That in itself pretty much knocks out all BP handguns other than the yuppies customs.

 

[tg]

" That little pistol seems to have done a job on ol Abe Lincoln"

Right on Old Charlie, if you can just quietly open the door to the balcony seat area and shoot that trophy buck in the back of the head from 2 feet away and hope the vetrenarians poke their fingers in the hole a few times and have little medical knowledge....

 

[Smk50]

In Nebraska, we have a muzzleloader season, the exceptions are no scopes above 1x, but red dot scopes are allowed. I shoot traditional, and would like to see that type of season here. there is a movement by the inline crowd here trying to get the G&P to allow unlimited scope power since they can shoot at over 100yds. I think if you NEED to do that then you can hunt the regular firearm season and not interfere with my season. Our ML season is the entire month of Dec. Firearm is 9 days in nov. during the rut.

 

[oneeye]

Pretty much "anything goes" here in Michigan. There is no way they would restrict anything here since they are still trying to manage be eradication! That area in WV that was mentioned earlier in this thread sounds intriguing. Does anyone know if that are is open to non-residents? :hmm:

Dan

 

[Riley/MN]

This is from the MN regs:

MUZZLELOADER
Ӣ Big game may be taken with muzzleloaders that meet the definition of legal firearms.
”¢ Only open and “peep” type sights (including those with fiber optic material) are legal during the Muzzleloader Deer Season. Scopes, including holographic or “red dot” scopes, are not legal for this season, except for use of nonmagnifying scopes by special permit for persons with medically verified visual impairments. A permit application is available by calling the DNR Information Center.

LEGAL FIREARMS FOR BIG GAME
Note: see www.dnr.state.mn.us/regulations/hunting/legalcartridges.html
for a listing of legal big game cartridges.

A rifle, shotgun, muzzleloader, or handgun is legal for taking deer if:
Ӣ it is at least .23 caliber;
Ӣ it is loaded only with single projectile ammunition;
Ӣ the projectile used has a soft point or is an expanding bullet type; and
Ӣ the ammunition has a case length of at least 1.285 inches, with the exception of a 10 mm cartridge that is at least .95 inches long, a .45 Winchester magnum, or a .50 A.E. (Action Express) handgun cartridge;
Ӣ the muzzleloader (long gun or handgun) used cannot be loaded at the breech (muzzleloading revolvers are not legal for taking big game);
Ӣ the smooth-bore muzzleloader used is at least .45 caliber; and
Ӣ the rifled muzzleloader used is at least .40 caliber;
Ӣ muzzleloaders with scopes are legal during the regular firearms deer seasons only, except nonmagnifying scopes may be used by muzzleloader season hunters with a medically certified visual impairment and a DNR permit.

MN also has several "Special Permit Areas for Muzzleloaders". I know this is by lottery, but I need to find out more info.

2005 Special Hunt Permit Areas ”“ Muzzleloader hunters with special hunt permits for Jay Cooke, Crow Wing, Afton, Lake Louise, and Interstate State Parks may purchase and use up to four bonus permits. Special hunt permit holders on Lake Shetek, Myre-Big Island, and Nerstrand-Big Woods state parks may use one bonus permit.

SPECIAL PERMIT AREAS FOR MUZZLELOADER HUNTERS
The following are Special Permit Areas open during the Muzzleloader Season. Application instructions are the same as for other Firearms Special Permit Areas and are described on pages 83.
Note: Applicants for Special Permit Areas may apply in parties of up to four hunters.

For more info see http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/hunting/deer/index.html

You will need adobe and hopefully have a faster connection than mine. :cursing:

 

[Riley/MN]

I guess I didn't get it edited in time, but I was going to add this to my previous post:

I wonder if in the early days of compound bows there were similar feelings by those who had worked to get a traditional season to use their archery gear. I think we are looking at a similar progression.

Those plastic things are here and we can gripe about it all we want-it ain't gonna change anything, IMO. What we CAN do is promote the use of the traditional arms and maintain an interest in them.

 

[chuck-ia]

here in Iowa you can use pretty much anything as long is it loads from the front, .44 cal is the min. very seldom do I see a sidelock at the range or while hunting. I have also heard of some writers saying the roundball is inadequate, I guess they are probably right, but then I am not interested in taking shots at 200 yards. I wish the regulations would say roundball only. I think that would simplify things. Some of you may not agree with that, and thats ok. what the heck has happened to getting out and actually hunting? You know, getting close, for me it is under 50 yards. I guess I am getting a bit off topic. flinch

 

[oneeye]

These are the very reason why I have continued to turn backwards for my hunting equipment. I have hunted with simple longbows now for many years having tired of the compound bow. I am now beginning to tire of my modern firearms and looking towards using flintlocks for all of my firearm hunting. I do not care if others choose to use modern stuff. Just don't try to take away my right to hunt and shoot what I want. If you do that, you had better dig in for a fight!

Dan

 

[tg]

"Just don't try to take away my right to hunt and shoot what I want."

Agreed, but the loose definition of ML and lack of vision on what was to come has opened Pandoras box and the high tech for lunch bunch fall back on this same reasoning, ignoring the fact they slipped in under the radar and outside the intent of the original seasons conceptions.

 

[alrany187]

Not in New York State, a muzzloader is a muzzloader in line or not

Quite true, but if you recall, several years back smoothbores were not included in the DEC definition of a muzzleloader. You could hunt with an inline, but not a flintlock smoothbore because the NYS DEC definition of a ML said it had to have rifling in the barrel.

I could only hunt with my flintlock smoothie during regular season, because it was still a shotgun.

Ellis Delahoy

 

[Plains99]

The first thing to remember about Bridges, Wakeman, and most of the T/C North American Hunting Club experts is that they are salesmen. Pushing products to make a living. I think Bridges knows better but Wakeman is a joke. A traditional muzzleloader is a very effective hunting instrument and all the rifle most hunters will ever need especially if state regulations mandate the use of open sights.

 

[barebackjack]

In Nebraska, we have a muzzleloader season, the exceptions are no scopes above 1x, but red dot scopes are allowed. I shoot traditional, and would like to see that type of season here. there is a movement by the inline crowd here trying to get the G&P to allow unlimited scope power since they can shoot at over 100yds. I think if you NEED to do that then you can hunt the regular firearm season and not interfere with my season. Our ML season is the entire month of Dec. Firearm is 9 days in nov. during the rut.

My state has pretty much the same regulations.
I cant believe this post is still going!!! WOW!!! Im not trying to ruffle anybodies feathers on purpose, just gettin some opinions. Im not knocking inline users, I just personaly think that because they have become so technicaly advanced that they should not be considered on the same terms as traditional ML's. Some of you used bowhunting as a comparison, but, think of the generally accepted rules of max bow range, and there is not much difference between a longbow and a modern compound,......roughly 30 yards max range for each, depending on individual skill of course. But when you start talking traditional flintlock/percussion, side-lock, iron sights, PRB versus in-line, internal ignition, variable powered scope, jacketed saboted bullets, and powder pellets, your talking a max range difference of 100 yards or more!!!!
I believe a compound bow and a longbow are comparable, but comparing a traditional ML and a inline is like comparing a longbow and a slug-gun.

Boone

 

[oneshot]

I just go to be going! It don't matter if its Inline,Sidelock,Longbow,Recurve,Crossbow,or Slingshot.

Missouri you can use anything durring Muzzleloader Season long as it loads through the muzzle.

Last year I used Sidelock on Deer.Started out using Inline on Hogs,went to my Sidelock.This year have been using my Inline on Hogs and Turkeys.Most the time use Sidelock on Small Game.

I like my Sidelocks because they are easier to Load and clean.Inlines if I'm on a paid Hunt and its pouring rain,I just don't want to take the chance on a missfire.

oneshot

 

[ossabaw]

:hmm: The state of Georgia will allow scopes this year during black powder season and bp hunts on wildlife management areas. The deer numbers are up and the hunter numbers are down. The biologists just want deer killed. Period.