Traditional only

[barebackjack]

How many people have traditional only muzzleloader seasons in their state?

Here in ND we have no "traditional" law, but scopes are not legal. I would like to see us go to a traditional only season, as I dont think in-line's shooting pellets and sabots with fiber-optic sights out to 200-250 yards is exactly warranting its own season, let those guys shoot during the regular rifle season. Does anybody have a traditional and in-line seasons seperate?

Just wondering

Boone

 

[Slake]

Not in New York State, a muzzloader is a muzzloader in line or not

 

[bob1961]

PA has a week long muzzleloading the 3rd week of oct that anything goes....then a flintlock season for bout 3 1/2 weeks starting dec 26th...........bob

 

[Kuckus]

West Virginia has a one week season (after almost 2 months of either sex archery, 2 weeks of buck-only firearm, 1 week of antlerless firearm) for traditional muzzleloaders that we share with the inline "army" . This season is in the middle of December and the deer are educated... to say the least .

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Sorry if I PO anyone but I have nothing against the inline hunters. That being said I would like to see a week of traditional only using sidelocks and roundball before the regular m/l season. I know here in NH that would push it into moose season but I don't think most traditionalist would have a hard time telling a moose from a deer.

Having the traditional season after rifle season I think would be unfair.

 

[gmww]

Boy I can see that one opening a can of worms. IMHO I can predict the next logical question. Who decides what is traditional? As an example, you mentioned sidelocks. Does that mean underhammers are not going to be allowed even though they were made by the thousands along side the sidelocks? I like the concept but it's going to be an uphill battle if traditional is limited to certain traditonal weapons and not other traditional weapons. :hmm:

 

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Yea, sidelocks with fiber optic sights or scopes, synthetic stocks and stainless barrels shooting plastic sabboted rifle bullets!

I don't care where you hang the hammer, that ain't traditional! and it isn't primitive either!

:youcrazy: :youcrazy:

 

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Yea, sidelocks with fiber optic sights or scopes, synthetic stocks and stainless barrels shooting plastic sabboted rifle bullets!

I don't care where you hang the hammer, that ain't traditional! and it isn't primitive either!

:youcrazy: :youcrazy:

:thumbsup:

 

[gmww]

I don't care where you hang the hammer, that ain't traditional! and it isn't primitive either!

:youcrazy: :youcrazy:

I respectfully disagree. I based it on history which showed that Underhammers were very popular and competed with sidelocks. A flintlock underhammer is documented in the 1740's or so. They were prolific in the east in the early 1800's to mid 1800's. Some were even sent to the Republic of Texas in 1837.

Just because they aren't currently as popular as sidelocks are today does not mean they are not traditional.

This goes back to my original statement of who decides what is traditional.

:hmm:

 

[barebackjack]

I think determining what is traditional or primitive and what isnt is simple.

Pick a date......if it werent around at or before that time, it dont fly.

Scopes, pellets, fiber optics, jacketed sabots, shotgun primers, in-lines.....those are all relatively new. And are nowhere near primitive. I believe they should have their own season, or be allowed with the centerfire season. Now the argument most I have talked to say that these things improve their ability to humanly and ethicaly harvest a deer. But Ive always thought that if you are responsible, you should have no problem with traditional equipment. Most of these people think my bow is not human or as good as a gun as well, but anybody who bow hunts knows that when used with common sense and responsibility, a bow is a VERY lethal weapon, just as a traditional muzzleloader is.
I think its the same principle with bow season, our state doesnt allow crossbows unless you are a disabled vet, because they arent as "primitive", so why do they allow non-primitive muzzleloaders.

Just my two cents.

Boone

ps. not trying to raise a stink, just getting some opinions. thanks

 

[faw3]

Not sure what your post ment, I wish they would let the the guys useing the old kind rifles take a wack first, but then you do get into "what is" like he underhammers, they are a heavyly used hunting rifle in the the 1830s all over the upper north east, use the cut date of 1840 and that wipes out any of the great Hawken rifles what we need for long shots outhere in Texas. Sill it could be done, might have to retune it a few times. The truth is we are few, the in :cursing: boys out number us a 1000 to 1, no getting around that, wish we could just click our heels twice and go back to our time in history.( Im part native american so Id like to try the North C hills my people hunted till it was taken away because we was red ( I have the org papers that list everthing taken, slaves, live stock,big house,over 1500 acs of land and great grand mother given a # not a name and put to walking to Olk.Ya the good ol days........ we are stuck guys, just have to do what you can with what you got, when i hunted I used a Ml no matter what the law said you could use, the guys with the scoped 2000 buck rifles thought I was nuts till they saw I got what they did with out all the big buck manure. FRED :hatsoff:

 

[gmww]

How many people have traditional only muzzleloader seasons in their state?

Here in ND we have no "traditional" law, but scopes are not legal. I would like to see us go to a traditional only season, as I dont think in-line's shooting pellets and sabots with fiber-optic sights out to 200-250 yards is exactly warranting its own season, let those guys shoot during the regular rifle season. Does anybody have a traditional and in-line seasons seperate?

Just wondering

Boone

In Wa. basically the thing that seperates the types of weapon is the ignition being exposed to the elements and type of powder used. And barrel length.

In a nut shell, if you have an exposed ignition, your shooting lead only projectiles and your using a black powder or black powder substitute your ok to hunt ML. Also no scopes allowed. It's a pretty even playing field.

 

[biliff]

Oregon allows inlines, but bans scopes, fiber optic sights, sabots, jacketed bullets, centerfire primers, pelletized powders and enclosed ignitions. I still run into people at the range shooting illegal in-lines in preparation for a muzzleloader hunt, because they didn't read the fine print and just bought an inline rifle out of the Cabella's catalog.

 

[Kuckus]

On a brighter note West Virginia has set aside approximateley 5-6 thousand acres of public land for muzzleloader (All types) use only during the regular antlered modern firearms season :applause: . This area is known as the Wilson Cove Study Area located in Hardy County... Although I've never hunted the area personally, my pards tell me the undergrowth is thicker than the hair on a dogs back and the experienced smoothbore shooter actually has an advantage over the scoped inline for quick shots in the tight cover. Bucks are reputed to grow to biblical proportions in this dense thicket :shocked2: :winking: . Might be worth a try :hmm: on this area of the GW National Forest.

 

[Old Ironsights]

Indiana allows all muzzleloaders during Gun season, plus has a late season ML only season.

All muzzle-stuffers are OK for Deer as long as the projectile is .440 or larger.

ML pistols are restricted to single barrel, 12" or longer, .50 or larger only - making my Ruger Old Army illegal during ML season but (with a .45LC cylinder) Legal during Gun season. :shake:

When you consider my ROA with RB or Lee REAL has more energy than a .45LC "Cowboy" load, that is pretty stupid. :youcrazy:

 

[Old Ironsights]

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Yea, sidelocks with fiber optic sights or scopes, synthetic stocks and stainless barrels shooting plastic sabboted rifle bullets!

I don't care where you hang the hammer, that ain't traditional! and it isn't primitive either!

:youcrazy: :youcrazy:

I also have to disagree (except for the sabot bit).

Changing the metalurgy of the gun or composition of the stock essentially changes only the appearance and cleanability of the firearm. A flintlock shooting PRB with loose powder is a Flintlock shooting PRB with loose powder - no matter what it is made of. You can only put so much powder behind a PRB anyway, so, so what if the marketing flacks call the new metalurgy "magnum"? You can only burn so much powder in any barrel.


As to sights? Maybe, but even Fiber Optic sights are still open sights. Would you throw out any form of adjustable sight?

But I certainly agree on the saboted bullet stuff. bleah.

 

[bigbore442001]

In Massachusetts a muzzleloader is defined as a gun that is loaded from the muzzle, whether it is in-line or traditional sidehammer.

 

[tg]

I think useing the pre-cartridge era guns {1860 ish) as a guide line is a fair way to go, there are always exceptions, but this allows most any thing except the modern stuff, one can always find exception to any date put forth if trying to slip in a ringer but that is what people do. I think a replica of a 18th centure (non-typical) ...(I word) gun would be traditional if use with a period projectle and sights,we have swung way to the left and it needs to swing back or there will be no difference between one season or another.

 

[barebackjack]

I agree with you 100% that the way the seasons are going, that there soon will be no real difference in seasons.


Boone

 

So does this mean that by the reasoning of the last few posts that it is the sights and projectiles that make the gun primitive, not materials and design?

A synthetic stocked, stainless steel barreled and day-glow sighted rifle is traditional, as long as the lock is on the side, the bottom or the top, (but not the back), and as long as it is firing a PRB?

Anything is traditinal as long as it fires a PRB and does not strike the primer from the rear?



You mean I can hunt with a Firestorm but not with a Hall Carbine?