Thimble size

[Electric Miner]

So what's up with the size of thimbles on commercial rifles?

For example...

The Pedersoli Pennsylvania rifle I own takes a 5/16" ramrod. Nothing larger will physically fit down the bore. The thimbles that came on the rifle, though, are 3/8" inside diameter. That means the ramrod is loose and rattles around, and falls out if you tip the bore downwards. Why would they do that?

And it isn't the only rifle I have that does that. The ramrod that came with my CVA Kentucky rifle kit was an eighth of an inch smaller in diameter than the thimbles supplied with the kit.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The wording of your question(s) is confusing. Some are one size others are another. Nothing standard in this business.
If your 5/16" rod is loose, get a 3/8" rod.
If a rod is too tight sand it down. Many rifles will take a 3/8" through the thimbles but not into the hole in the stock. I accept this as pretty much the norm and sand down my rods to a taper to fit.
I use a lathe for this but before I had a lathe I just just a hand drill and sandpaper. Takes time but in this game there are a lot of do it yerself projects. Scraping with a knife or draw knife is also done.
BTW, in museums, seeing tapered wiping sticks (ramrods) is very common.

 

[Electric Miner]

What's confusing about my post?

Let me try this again. My rifle came from the factory with thimbles installed that are .375 (3/8") inside diameter. The bore of this rifle is .32 caliber (roughly 5/16") For this reason, I have a choice of carrying a 3/8" ramrod, which would mean that the ramrod carried on my rifle would be useless, as it would not actually fit in the bore of the rifle; Or I can get a 5/16" ramrod, which will fit in the bore of the rifle, but which will be too small for the factory supplied thimbles.

I have chosen to get a ramrod that can actually be used with the rifle. This means that either my ramrod will rattle around loosely in the factory-supplied thimbles, or I can replace the factory supplied thimbles with the proper sized thimbles, which is what should have been done at the factory when the gun was originally built.

Clear?

So, why would the makers of a fairly expensive rifle not factory install appropriately sized thimbles for it, since the thimbles they installed are sized for a ramrod that is too large in diameter to even fit in the bore of the rifle.

The other part of my observation concerned a kit that I had that included thimbles that were appropriately sized for the caliber of the rifle, but then included a ramrod that was too small for the thimbles. And, yes, I could go buy a larger ramrod, but why should I have to, when the factory could have included the proper ramrod in the first place?

It is more understandable on a CVA kit, since CVA was not known for the highest quality kits, but on an expensive rifle, like my Pedersoli, I would expect them to get something like the size of the thimbles right.

 

[Robby]

If you have a .32 cal. with 3/8" I.D. thimbles, somebody screwed up at Pedersoli. Is the R/R groove made for a 3/8" rod? :hmm:
Robby

 

[Electric Miner]

It appears that it is.

 

[Robby]

Well that sucks!!! If this a new gun, you could send it back. Even if it isn't I would contact them or their representative in this country and explain the situation. Maybe there is something they can do.
I don't know anything about Pedersoli guns, but trying to visualize your problem and if it were up to me to fix it, I think it would be a pretty involved do over. Removing the pipes, in-letting a dutchman, of the same wood if possible, into the existing groove, creating a new 5/16"* groove, blending all that into the existing fore stock, in-letting new 5/16"* or for me I would make then slightly smaller along with the groove*, then re-finishing the entire stock. Of course this is without seeing the gun and not knowing your abilities, it may be easier to send the barrel to Bobby Hoyt and have it made into a .40cal. and stick with the 3/8" rod. Are the pipes on these guns a true 3/8" inside diameter, or maybe a metric figure somewhat smaller? Good luck!!!
Robby

 

[Electric Miner]

I measured them. They're 3/8". I'm a fairly accomplished woodworker with a decent wood shop. I can do whatever needs done, but I suspect I can just replace the thimbles without doing any other major renovation.

 

[Billnpatti]

Two simple solutions come to mind. First, most rifles have a spring on the bottom of the barrel that keeps some pressure on the rod to keep it in place. You can remove your stock and see if the spring is there. If it is there, just bend it to tighten it on your rod. If it is missing, just get another one from some place like Muzzleloader Builders Supply, Dixie Gun Works, Track of The Wolf, etc.

Another simple solution is to put a slight bend in your rod so it will stay in place. A slight bend will not hurt the function of your rod. To put a bend in it, just wet it and put it in some sort of home made jig that will hold it slightly bent until it drys. Sounds strange but it will work and the rod will not be affected as to its function.

 

[Electric Miner]

Or I can just replace the thimbles with proper sized thimbles.

 

[Robby]

Unless you fabricate your own thimbles they will not fit properly into the existing mortises, their O.D. will be smaller, I suppose you could make liners for the existing ones to accept the smaller diameter rod, but you will have a pretty sizable gap under and on either side of the rod either way.
Me, I couldn't live with that.
Robby

 

[Electric Miner]

The existing thimbles are pinned into the stock by a slot in the stock into which a tab of metal is inserted and held by two pins. That is a piece of cake to convert. The rear thimble might need some fitting, as it might be thinner than the existing thimble. That is easily fixed by adding a thin wafer of matching wood to both sides, glued in place, and shaped/stained to match. Then the thimble is pinned in place like normal. Not exactly rocket science.

 

[Robby]

We all have our standards. :hatsoff:
Robby

 

[Electric Miner]

Ummm...

Ok...

 

[jdkerstetter]

What Robby was driving at is the replacement pipes will be of smaller outside diameter so simply swapping them out will leave gaps in the existing mortises.

Then there is still the issue of the oversized groove too.

He indicated above that neither would be acceptable to him.

Also, getting pipes with the same outside diameter but smaller holes through them or sleeving the existing pipes to make the hole smaller aren't good options as that would leave the rod suspended in space, out of the groove.

There is no easy fix that I can see for this one.

Good Luck, J.D.

 

[fyrfyter43]

I think Robby had the best suggestion (other than returning the gun). Send the barrel to Bobby Hoyt to be bored out to a .40 cal.

 

[Stumpkiller]

So what's up with the size of thimbles on commercial rifles?

For example...

The Pedersoli Pennsylvania rifle I own takes a 5/16" ramrod. Nothing larger will physically fit down the bore. The thimbles that came on the rifle, though, are 3/8" inside diameter. That means the ramrod is loose and rattles around, and falls out if you tip the bore downwards. Why would they do that?

And it isn't the only rifle I have that does that. The ramrod that came with my CVA Kentucky rifle kit was an eighth of an inch smaller in diameter than the thimbles supplied with the kit.

I would say Pedersoli is economizing by using a standard thimble that is not suitable for all bore sizes. Aka: "Cheaping Out".

 

[Electric Miner]

Wait and see. I'll post it when it's done...

 

[Bill Hall]

I would say Pedersoli is economizing by using a standard thimble that is not suitable for all bore sizes. Aka: "Cheaping Out".

DING DING DING! You win on Jeopardy! :thumbsup:

I wonder how tightly the rod fits in the ramrod hole in the stock. I think it's more important to have a tight fit in the stock rather than the thimbles. I think of the thimbles as quides for returning the rod to the stock, and also for keeping the rod from swaying around in the wind, but no so much for holding it in place. Not much you can do though if the ramrod hole is too wide. Maybe look into installing one of those springs mentioned earlier.

I'd still change out those thimble though. I'll bet you get that hollywood Robin Hood arrow sound effect when you shoot. Thwakoinnnng. Good luck. Bill

 

[Bear Rider]

How about getting some thinwall tubing and sleeving the thimbles? You might be able to do this without removing them from the stock.

 

[RhinoDave]

This would probably be the cheapest way to go. Brass tubing