And maybe in 300 years, the guns we now have will become serious collector items. With better metals and better cleaning options they may well age beautifully
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The Future of Traditional Muzzleloaders?
- Thread starter Urban Coyote
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Something else that has changed over the years, we now have the instant gratification generation. Back 50 years ago, when people got involved with the sport, we all did our best to make our own gear. Now people seem to think the only way to have something is to buy it. It's a sad thing to see. Back in the day, it was very common to see nearly everyone with a small trade blanket of things they had made at the rendezvous. Now there are only a handful.
You get exactly what you pay for! Youngsters don’t know squat about how to use standard barrel sights and that is true for many adults! Basically what kids do today is sit on their backsides doing thumb exercises on an Iphone!
"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
(From a sermon preached by Peter the Hermit in A.D. 1274)
(From a sermon preached by Peter the Hermit in A.D. 1274)
Very insightful and reminds us, or should, that the younger generation has always been looked down on by their seniors.
I know and/or met many young people that have conservative ideas, are hard workers and I have found them to be top notch individuals. They give me hope for the future of America. They will have a harder row to hoe than we had but with determination they can prevail.
We have a saying in the Marine Corps, "It's not the dope on the gun, it's the dope behind it". The dope to a Marine being your sight-in. I've gone to the range with my flintlock and outshot people with brand new rifles. I can drop a deer at 250 yards with my flintlock rifle, open sights, loose black powder, patch and round ball I mold myself out of old wheel weights. The majority of hunters who come up here to my mountains can't do that with a modern rifle and a scope. Of course, most of those are city people from Shittsburgh or similar places. I would call them, "hobbyist" also. Take their gun out of the closet once a year, dust it off, then back again after use. Lucky if it gets cleaned. Yeah, I'm just a Boomer who doesn't know better. However, I look at Gen X and Millennials with their faces in their cell phones. Their entire world consisting of what's on that little screen and 10 feet around them, I feel really sad what the past century of, "newest is better" and really horrified what the next century of, "newest is better" will be. I'm so glad I lived through the 50's, 60's and so on, growing up on a cotton and tobacco farm in NC. as I did. What a scary place this world has become. I for one, in ML, does very well. Semper Fi.
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I am envious of your eyesight and your ability to judge both wind and distance.
My unmentionable doubles are all old 2.5 inch side by sides. Still take pheasant, grouse and dove with 2.5 inch cartridges. Although it can be difficult getting the shells.
What bird on this continent requires a 3.5 inch magnum shot shell?
beardedhorse
Pilgrim
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also started in early '70's with CVA .45 caliber Kentucky flintlock pistol kit.. Been building and shooting ever since, Learned a lot from that first project and glad it is not around to remind me of the uphill learning curve. Instead of buying low end firearms of dubious quality, maybe get together with a competent, experienced builder and put together a pistol or less expensive (in parts) rifle. Lots of us geezers getting to where we might have to sell or pass on our muzzle loaders. If not one in your family shows an interest maybe sell it to a beginner in your muzzle loading club. I am fortunate that I live in a state with more than a few active clubs and year round shoots and competitions.
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Over the years I've mentored a lot of shooters. I did a promotional video for the NMLRA with the help of Jim Scoutten's Shooting USA show. I performed a number of difficult shots for Shooting USA's Impossible Shots program. For years I only shot flintlock rifles. For years, I attended black powder competitions all over the East Coast. There are a lot of clubs I shot at that no longer exist. I always told my shooters the most important part of the shooting game is the shooter, then equipment. A good shooter with good equipment is a winner. A good shooter with poor equipment is a frustrated shooter. I am an advocate of purchasing quality guns. I've seen interested people start off with poor equipment and quickly lose interest in the sport. I visit this site every day and look at the number of issues people have with production rifles. I started shooting in 1960 with an original smootbore but didn't really get hooked until Thompson Center came out with their Hawken rifle. Back then it was TC, CVA, or Jukars. So what's my point? Buy what you can afford but do the research before you spend your money. If you end up with a lemon, don't give up. This is a very fun family oriented, and rewarding sport. I've met lifelong friends that I still shoot with 30 to 40 years later we're still shooting together. Aim small. Miss small.
Montana second ever muzzleloader season starts tomorrow, traditional only, no inlines, pellets, sabots, 209 primers and such. My grapevine suggests Montanan's are having a difficult time finding guns and supplies fitting the regulation.
As a resident of Washington state I've witnessed seasons originating with primative weapons requirements transgress to less restrictive regulation. It's happened elsewhere too. In my opinion this has drawn people interested soley in filling tags with no appreciation of historical aspects of hunting with "real" muzzleloaders. Manufacturers go where the money is and have focused their products at the opportunist market. I believe this has had a major impact on the availability of traditional guns.
I've had my club's RO direct people to me that are having troubles with their modern muzzleloaders, I'm more than happy to honestly tell them I know nothing about the guns they shoot.
As a resident of Washington state I've witnessed seasons originating with primative weapons requirements transgress to less restrictive regulation. It's happened elsewhere too. In my opinion this has drawn people interested soley in filling tags with no appreciation of historical aspects of hunting with "real" muzzleloaders. Manufacturers go where the money is and have focused their products at the opportunist market. I believe this has had a major impact on the availability of traditional guns.
I've had my club's RO direct people to me that are having troubles with their modern muzzleloaders, I'm more than happy to honestly tell them I know nothing about the guns they shoot.
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Those funny looking clothes you mention secured a nation. We're just paying our respect to carrying on the history so people dont forget. Not too many nerds in the hobby that i've metYa ever hear of a hobby?
Thank you. I've been ML hunting and shooting since I was 6. Back on the farm it was either grow and kill your own food or you didn't eat. I'm now 67. Things are different today than they were in the 50's and 60's. In 72, 2 weeks after my 17th birthday. I was in Marine Corps Boot Camp. My eyes were rated as 20/12. They were so good I was made a door gunner on Huey Helo's. Today I only use reading glasses. Right eye 20/20, left eye 20/25 for distance. Near sighted is my issue from old age and battle damage. I didn't take my ol' grandpa's advice. "Don't ever grow old". Semper Fi.
Right now seems like which came first? Chicken or the egg? Is interest down due to guns and supplies becoming unavailable? Or are supplies and guns scarce due to lack of interest? Need to make it easy. Affordable and available hardware. I've just gotten ML the past few years and have had to work VERY hard to find and purchase equipment. Were I not retired I could not have given this much time to start any hobby.
I have to disagree, a lot of people got their start in muzzleloading with a low cost entry level gun, many of whom have continued to upgrade as time and income allowed. Without the starter gun most of these folks would not have been able to enjoy this fine sport.
Thank you as this is very correct!
Good reference, great song
I think interest is down due to the new generations just want everything as simple and compact as possible. Everything right there at hand. ML's too messy. Too tedious. Too much work.
Trapper Scott
45 Cal.
It seems to me that traditional muzzleloading isn't dying out, at least not with the older crowd, and with everything else, most hobbies and interests are dominated by age-specific folks. A good example of this would be video games. Back in my youth, we didn't have such things, but when they finally came along it was the younger folks who really got into them and we older people viewed them as a distraction of the youth. Another example is golf. It hit an all-time high several years ago with people in their 30s while along the retirees and 60-over crowd never left or missed a beat.
Firearms are no different. The younger folks like the mush-bang plastic guns while older ones are more interested in traditional firearms because of history. I suspect that as the younger crowd ages, their taste will change as mine did and some of them will develop a taste for the muzzleloaders.
I have always enjoyed all types of firearms, be it the cheap single-shot 22 rifles to the higher-end flintlocks. I also share my interest and hobbies with my family (son-in-law, grandkids, etc.), so when they visit we usually take a firearm out to the backyard and fire a few rounds. Sometimes it's a Glock, maybe an AR, and the next time a flinter. One thing I know hurts the traditionalist cause is to shun a particular type of firearm, mainly the mush bang plastic guns, and the newly developed super duper smoke poles.
As you should be able to tell by now I don't care much for the elitist attitude no matter what the subject is and there is no faster way to turn an otherwise interested party than to display that attitude.
Some folks like them and some don't, no big deal, but I think it is part of my responsibility to at least hear the haters out and teach the ones that want to know more about firearms in general and if that interest is peaked on traditional firearms, all the better, but we should at least be able to show interest in the modern guns too if that's what they want to discuss.
Preaching over.
Firearms are no different. The younger folks like the mush-bang plastic guns while older ones are more interested in traditional firearms because of history. I suspect that as the younger crowd ages, their taste will change as mine did and some of them will develop a taste for the muzzleloaders.
I have always enjoyed all types of firearms, be it the cheap single-shot 22 rifles to the higher-end flintlocks. I also share my interest and hobbies with my family (son-in-law, grandkids, etc.), so when they visit we usually take a firearm out to the backyard and fire a few rounds. Sometimes it's a Glock, maybe an AR, and the next time a flinter. One thing I know hurts the traditionalist cause is to shun a particular type of firearm, mainly the mush bang plastic guns, and the newly developed super duper smoke poles.
As you should be able to tell by now I don't care much for the elitist attitude no matter what the subject is and there is no faster way to turn an otherwise interested party than to display that attitude.
Some folks like them and some don't, no big deal, but I think it is part of my responsibility to at least hear the haters out and teach the ones that want to know more about firearms in general and if that interest is peaked on traditional firearms, all the better, but we should at least be able to show interest in the modern guns too if that's what they want to discuss.
Preaching over.
Absolutely, I agree 100%. I love it when a youngster wants to learn the proper way to handle a firearm. Double that when it's a ML. I have my own range on my property up here in the mountains so all they have to do is come to me, NO CHARGE. Keeping them and teaching them to be safe firearms owners and see them go home happy is all the fee I need. Semper Fi.
