Tennessee rifle?

[pepperbelly]

I like my T/C Hawken percussion, but have been thinking about something else.
My grandparents on both sides, mom's and dad's, came to Texas from the Blue Ridge Mountain area of Tennessee a little after the turn of the century. I have been thinking about getting a rifle that would be of a type that was used in that area.
I haven't had time to research the flintlock rifles of Tennessee, and am not very familiar with the history of any muzzleloaders other than what I have read about the Hawken rifles.
I can't afford an original rifle, but which flintlock model would be closest to what they used in the Tennessee mountains?
Thanks,
Jim

 

[KyFlintlock]

PB - I was scoping one of those Tennessee Mountain rifle kits from TrackOfTheWolf yesterday! That is a mighty sweet rifle. Check them out - under the kits. Not a lot of extra flashy hardware on them, the way I like it.

Hopefully, I can pick one up to try my first kit before I keel-over...

Good luck
Wess

 

[pepperbelly]

I did a quick search on Tennessee rifles. The modern replicas seem to have short barrels. Is this what they used in the mountains? It would seem to make sense. The Hawken rifles were made shorter than the plains rifles to lessen weight and make them handier in the woods, like the modern mountain rifles.
I'll look at Track Of The Wolf when I get a chance- my 3 year old keeps me on my toes. I tend to post in spurts here when I get the chance.
Jim

 

What you see in the kits resembles a TN rifle in name only. I am limited on time at the moment. I will do another post latter.

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING WHILE I AM GONE!!!

:m2c:

 

[pepperbelly]

Ghost, I have a wife, a 3 year old and 17 year old daughters.
I won't buy anything even when you get back. :>)
I want to start looking around. I like the longrifles, and want a flintlock but would like to have a rifle similar to what my family carried before coming to Texas, if I can figure that out.
If I find one I may have to either sell one of my Mausers or do some trading. I like trading but it's tough hooking up with someone who wants what I have and has what I want.
Jim

 

[AdirondakDD]

Pepperbelly

I have a Tenn on order from TVM since June, expect a May delivery. Patience and time to save up the $$ I just picked up a German Mauser that was a Russin capture, what do you have? I have a Turk lowhump, and a high also. The Tenn I ordered is probably too brassy for authenticity but I got what I like.

Lou

 

[[email protected]]

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=6069754 now.......that thar is what sum
lucky feller might of had back in the hills......
notice the thick walls on the barrel.....it only a .32cal.
When it get shot out they would rebore to a bigger caliber.
Price aint bad fer an ORIGINAL.

**************** WV SCROUNGER ********************* :redthumb:

 

[KyFlintlock]

There is something about the longrifles for me... Where you have to backup to shoot!

Good luck with your rifle and keep us posted on what you get, and where.... In case I get off the "tight-wad" wagon and get serious too.

 

[pepperbelly]

Lou I have a Yugo reworked 98k Mauser with a laminated stock as well as a Turk M38. I also have a Swedish M38, and a Swiss K31 for bolt guns.. The Swede is my baby. The Yugo is very nice and the Turk I bought mainly to use as sporter fodder.
In case of sudden attack I have a Garand and an SKS. If that fails I have good running shoes.
I just started looking around for muzzleloaders after getting a T/C Hawken dirt cheap. I had found a Mowry percussion but it is just out of my price range.
Jim

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I'm currently building one of Track's Tennessee Rifles.It
is a .32 caliber squirrel gun. The parts are first rate and the wood is actually nicer than what I ordered. The best thing is that there is enough extra wood in the stock to allow some customizing. This is a winter project and I'm taking my sweet time on it.
In terms of historical accuracy, this is a pretty good representation of the style, bearing in mind that the stock can be shaped to a more correct style and you can select the proper furniture when you order your parts. Can't remember what I paid, but this is a so-called "poor boy" type with no entry pipe or buttplate. At any rate, given the quality, the price was fair. Hope you find this of some help.

 

Pepperbelly, there is no such thing as A Tennessee rifle. There were a lot of rifles fron and in TN and for the present makers to pick a single style and label it a TN rifle is an injustice!

The type evolved from 1769 until Hacker Martin died in the mid twientith century.

I have lived my life in these hills and have seen hundreds of guns and the only thing I can state firmly is that no two were alike in hardware, archecture, wood or workmanship.

Iron mounting does not make a gun a TN rifle. The slinder stock does not make a gun a TN rifle. VA guns were also iron mounted and Carolina guns had equally slinder archecture.

Most of the origional guns I have seen and know were straight out of granny's closet were the type we call "Poor Boys".

No hardware other than Ram rod thimbles (sometimes these were made from wire loops) and a trigger guard (one was made from a spoon handle). No buttplate, no side plate, no nose cap. Good barrel (some were made from model T axles), sometimes a hardware store percussion lock (bluegrass was the dominant maker). Low, shallow fixed sights were the rule. Wood was often not identifiable, but usually suspected of being cherry or plain maple and walnut on a couple.

Barrels were long! 36"-50" and generally on the 40-50" side rather than shorter. The short ones had usually been crudely chopped down from a longer length.

Were you talking about your ancestors going to Texas at the turn of the 19th or the 20th centuries. Folks were making the pilgramage to Texas from down here for more than 100 years, it could have been either. in 1800-1826 the action would have been flint. 1836 --on would have been percussion.

I have never seen an origional TN rifle in use that was still flint, though many I have seen were converted from flint to percussion. These mountain folk did switch to percussion pretty quickly, though they held onto the front stuffers for a long time, mostly due to them being cheaper to shoot.

What this means is that there are very few rules on a TN rifle. Anyone that attempts to impose standards on you is being arbitrary and setting their own standards, making up the rules as they go, to meet their own needs.

Most of the present kit providers use a stock similar to the Bean rifles, but the hardware is not the same. Most first time builders could not mount the intricate iron work of the fancy TN makers.

Save yourself time and money. Make a "poor boy". Any caliber is right, any wood, any amount or lack of hardware.
Go for it!

:thumbsup:

 

[pepperbelly]

Thanks Ghost. I did some reading today that said basically the same thing you did.
My grandparents came here around 1916 for dad's side. I'm not sure when mom's family came but I believe it was around the same time.
Dad's dad and his brothers came to south of Fort Worth and started dairy farms.
Nono of my grandparents had muzzleloaders, and mom's dad didn't hunt. Dad's dad had an old side by side shotgun that dad has now.
I'll just find a longrifle and be happy.
Jim

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

This is exactly right. I am trying to build one of these simple rifles. I'm using a 42" Green Mountain barrel and the rifle will be very slender. The hardware is the hardest part to get right. On my rifle the only real furniture is the trigger guard and it isn't right. I think a bit of heating and some careful bending will help it a little.
To my eye, these rifles are truly beautiful. With no fancy add-ons, they have to stand on their lines alone. The
advantage to the TOW parts groups is that you can mix and match them to get what you want.The basic package offered is just a guide.

 

[Donny]

You may be interested in..."Guns and Gunmaking Tools of Southern Appalachia" by John Rice Irwin..(he owns/runs the Museum of Applachia) There are some pics of some Tenn built rifles (not nearly enuff) and accruterments, etc. :winking:

 

[pepperbelly]

I keep reading references to slim stocks.
I had found a percussion rifle with a half stock and Mowry barrel. I first noticed the buttstock was very narrow and the wrist and foreend of the stock were very slim.
Is a slender stock usually found on just one type rifle?
Jim

 

[Falsears]

Pepperbelly: In your research you mite try finding the book titled Foxfire 5. It has write up's on Hacker Martin, Hershel House, Wallace Gusler and others. The write up on Hershel House has a description of his version of the poorboy rifle. You should be able to find this book at your local library. Hope this helps you in your search.

 

In general, and remember that this is not a hard and fast rule without exceptions, rifles started with wide, thick chumky lines and grew more slender as styles evolved.

Early pre-rev war guns are dated by the thickness of the stock, how close to the lines af a jager they remain etc. Although these rules are being changed even as we write these words, that has been the accepted method of dating guns until now. The latter the era, the more slinder the lines and the slimer the thickness until some of the late guns were less than 3/4" thick at the butt, with wildly curved buttplates that only allowed small caliber use.

Half stocks came in after the turn of the 19th century, but the hill people tended to hang onto full stocks through the whole life of muzzle loading. They did try some unusual stock repairs and stock lengths, such as 3/4 length stocks that stoped a foot short of the muzzle and had a short rib.

Heres' a tip. Call Tip Curtis at the Frontier Shop. His address and ### are in the links section. Tip is an owner operated business and he will give you the honest state of parts availability and not dribble backordered parts to you for months after cashing your check.

Tell him you want a TN poorboy and ask what price he can give you on a late style percussion lock, pre-carved stock, Green Mt. barrel and a TN trigger guard. Ask for a .40 or .45 cal. barrel in 13/16" to keep things slim but allow you to use it to humt big critters if you desire.

This is like putting a kit together yourself and the soct of these parts will run about $350 shipping and all. The barrel channel will be cut and Tip can inlet the lock for you too if you desire. He will make sure the parts work together and give you a good functional TN style gun for use in Texas.

Poor boys are a good beginner project since they actually leave off the most difficult of the finish work, such as inletting butt plate and patchbox, no inlays, no nose cap. With a pre-carved stock and the lock inlet already cut, an experienced builder can assemble a poor boy in a couple of evenings and have the finish done by the end of the week!

:thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

Tip Curtis is a good source, but you may want to look at Pecatonica Rivers offerings too.

They have 3 different stocks available and either one could be used to make a Tennessee rifle.
The first one is called a "Southern Mountain Rifle" and it comes in L&R flint or Precussion. The price given in the catalog I have is 374.50+wood.
Another is called a "Tennessee Mountain Rifle" which comes in Sller Flint or Siler Precussion. The price is given as $370.50+wood.
Another is called a "Tennessee Classic" which comes in Siler Flint or Precussion. The price is given as 364.50+ wood.

Pecatonicas wood price for a full length stock in Walnut or Cherry is $135.
These all have iron trigger guards and buttplates.

From what I've learned, most of the Tennessee rifles had long barrels, so the offerings with shorter barrels wouldn't fit the general trend.
By the way, if anyone has a picture of a rifle made by Selvidge back in the 1840s, would you let me know?
One of my good friends by that name is a direct decendent of one of the known Tennessee gunsmiths who is mentioned in the book "The Kentucky Rifle" by Dillin

If you can find one, Dixie Gunworks has sold a Tennessee Mountain rifle for years. The last one I saw sold for about $180 used.

 

[Dave Poss]

SOUTHERN MOUNTAIN RIFLE - circa 1790 - Replica Item number: 3940648299
Ran across this on ebay. You might want to check it out. I emailed the owner and asked what made it non-fireable. He said he peened the touch hole closed. I guess that was to comply with ebay rules. Wouldn,t be a difficult problem to correct though. Looks well made. Just thought I'd pass it on in case you might be interested.....I AM! :thumbsup:

 

[Dave Poss]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3940648299&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

try this...hopefully I did it right this time