TC White mountain Carbine

[Dale Allen Raby]

I've been told that the T/C White Mountain Carbine IN FIFTY CALIBER is a 1:28 twist, but haven't checked it personally. Mine shoots conicals and sabots well enough, but not PRB.... which seems to indicate that I was given good intel on the subject. Mine is the later version with the machine screw, not the wood screw.

The Williams FP is a nice piece of microengineering in my opinion. I have one on an early T/C Hawken .45. The original sights were... pretty loose. Only issue I had with it was that the supplied screw did not match the threads for the factory-drilled and tapped hole. Had to take the gun to a hardware store to match the thread and ended up having to modify the screw head.

When that gun came into the store where I worked, I bought it and then took it outside the store to walk with it on a sling for a bit. After about five minutes, I went back inside and wrote up the sale to myself. Just about then a couple of Green Bay Police Officers arrived.

Me: "Lemme guess... man with a gun out in front of the gun shop?"

They laughed about it too and asked to see the gun. One of them asked me what was "special" about it. I explained about the half-octagon barrel, the shorter-than-average length and the overly large trigger-guard that allowed for gloved fingers in Wisconsin winters. I got the impression that a call to a gun shop that didn't involve arresting somebody was one of the better calls an officer could get

 

[chorizo]

At 225 buy it

 

[chorizo]

McMaster-Carr delivers in 24-48 hrs. I know I use them weekly.

My last order took 3 weeks for an in stock item. Don't get me wrong, I love them and they are my ace in the hole for getting quality items I need that can't be found anywhere else

 

[Rawhide67]

My 50cal white Mtn carbine shot the TC 300gr maxi pretty well at 50 yards, over 80gr of 3F. Never tried it past 50 yards as the muzzleloader woods here are still pretty leafy. FYI, it will get your attention when you pull the trigger.

 

[chorizo]

All carbines tend to be louder with the more pronounced muzzleblast and have a sharper recoil. Made for "carry a lot and shoot a little".

The longest gun I use for hunting is 26" (two of them) in 58 and 54 I have several in 54 and 50 in 24" and two, 50 and 54, in 21" and hopefully soon an extra barrel in 21" in 54 with a faster twist than the WMC has in 54 cal. I do love my carbines and at the distances I hunt, 125 yards or less, they are plenty adequate for elk on down. All but 2 are CVA (Ardesa) versions, the 58 a Zoli and the WMC of course T/C. I have found that the deep cut rifling in the CVAs and a slightly faster twist than normal provides for a more accurate gun in carbines with conicals as each of those faster twist guns shoot sub 2"/4" at 50/100 yards with no appreciable loss of MV...I am using Triple 7 however, which is a little more energetic, producing higher velocities with slightly less powder to burn in those short barrels. Surprisingly fffg produces LESS MV than ffg in my carbines....I have yet to figure that out as it should burn faster, thus more completely.

I use an e-bike to go to the kick-off area where I hunt and to retrieve my game. Slinging a short carbine across my back works like a champ.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

My 50cal white Mtn carbine shot the TC 300gr maxi pretty well at 50 yards, over 80gr of 3F. Never tried it past 50 yards as the muzzleloader woods here are still pretty leafy. FYI, it will get your attention when you pull the trigger.

It sure will with that load! I think you used the right powder, though of late I usually put in seven grains of 3f topped by either fifty or seventy grains of T7 under a 200 grain sabotted .45 caliber pistol bullet. I don't own any .45 pistols any longer, but still have lots of bullets, and while I have plenty of T7, I'm down to a couple pounds of 3f Old Eynsford.

The thing about carbines and other short-barreled weaponry is that it's always a balance between performance and muzzle blast/recoil. I fired an over-charged caplock pistol once. Once. I thought my hand was broke and I think it took about a minute for the smoke to clear enough to see out of the cloud I was enveloped with. Pistol was fine.

You have to find a load that works with it, but I am always picking light projectiles and light charges. I would use 3f exclusively if only I could actually find more of it. With 2f powder, most of your powder burns outside of the barrel... and the amount of wastage is probably increased by my using light bullets, so 3f is the powder of choice for most carbine shooters, so far as I am aware.

I've got a modified T/C New Englander with barrels that range from 9" to 12". 70 grains of 3f under a .710 patched round ball in a 12' barrel will REALLY get your attention. Only ever tried it once. Since then I generally go with 7 grains 3f and 30 grains of T7. With barrels that short, you are basically dealing with pistol/large revolver loads unless you really like making clouds.

Personally, I would have liked to have seen the White Mountain Carbine with a 1:66 twist rate. A PRB would be much easier on the shoulder and probably less damaging to the early guns with the wood screw mount system. "If only, if only, the woodpecker cries...." Then again, I usually "hunt" empty milk jugs in the back yard. They are classed as easy-to-kill thin-skinned game.

Years ago I had one in .45, but an old friend wanted it, so I traded it to him for a New Englander. He's dead now. Hmmmm.... maybe I should look up his widow?

 

[chorizo]

I run 100 grains of Triple 7 with a 375 gr CVA deerslayer in my 54 cal WMC....accuracy is adequate but not superb. Varying from 80 to 100 doesn't seem to affect accuracy much. I think it is the shallow grooves and 1:48 twist that is holding it back.

I just bought some No Excuses 485 gr and I am having Bobby Hoyt cut to 21, bore out and re-line a 54 Renegade barrel with a 1:38 twist and with deeper cut rifling. I think I should get the results I want with 90 grains (or there abouts) of Triple 7 in ffg. A stout load, yes, but it isn't for sitting at the bench and shooting all day.

 

[chorizo]

I just received an order of No Excuses .541 sized 54 cal 485 grain conical bullets. To my surprise they drop freely into my WMC and would drop completely down the bore a ways if I turned them loose. The CVA deerslayer 54 cal do not and the .541 no excuses do not slip into the CVA 54 cal guns I own.

This only reinforces my plan to get a Renegade barrel bored out and relined with more aggressive rifling and hopefully at a tighter diameter bore.

 

[Rawhide67]

485 grains, I’d keep the powder charge low. I like my teeth in my head, not on the ground.

 

[chorizo]

485 grains, I’d keep the powder charge low. I like my teeth in my head, not on the ground.

I am not recoil sensitive. I shoot my unmentionable guide gun in 45-70 with 405 grain 2000 fps buffalo bore ammo with no problem.

I only shoot from the bench enough to sight it in and develop a load.

 

[chorizo]

@Rhyno_82 Got my screw from Ebay. It is better than what came on the gun. The gun screw was partial threaded and soft metal. The screw I received was harder and threaded to the head.

I put that up front. Tried to move the extra front screw to the back , but the soft shank wouldn't take a thread well, so I simply reverted to the SS oval head I put on it in the first place.

Since you have two, the back screw should be just a tad over 1.5" (1.6 to 1.7) long IF you drill through to the trigger guard and tap thread it fully.

Threading is 10-32tpi. Also recommend that after the taper tap, you use a bottoming tap

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DL7CUPM?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp&th=1

 

[chorizo]

485 grains, I’d keep the powder charge low. I like my teeth in my head, not on the ground.

Not planning on tossing soft pitch to elk. Either the gun holds up or I find another than will.

Teeth are over-rated.

 

[nit wit]

I just saw a MINT one for $225 … what are they worth?

300.00 and up.
NW

 

[Saxtonyoung]

Ryan ,

The 50 caliber WMC came in 2 different twist rates. I don't know what year they were introduced because I don't have access to all the old catalogs but I can tell you that in 1992 and 1993 they had a 1:20 twist. In 1994 and 1995 they had a 1:38 twist. In 1996 they were no longer in the cataloge. I have owned several of them and I can tell you that one I have has a serial number of 62328 is a 1:20 while another I have has a serial number of 71158 and it has a 1:38 twist so the change is somewhere between those numbers. I'm glad they didn't make them in 96 because that's the year TC put Their QLA on all their barrels.

The 45 WMC was in 1992 and 93 and had a 1:48 twist.

The 54 WMC was made in 1992, 93, 94 and 95 and had a 1:48 twist.

I believe quite a few people disliked the 50 WMC because they didn't understand the fast twist and tried shooting round balls with the same powder charges they would in their hawken and that was usually a recipe that didn't include accuracy. Although it could be used for round balls with lighter loads its true calling was as a bullet gun. This past weekend I shot several 100 yard shots using a 450 gn bullet backed by 60gr of BP into fist sized groups using a peep sight on one of my 1:20 twist barrels.

 

[chorizo]

They did make some WMC with the QLA. One was sold not long ago on this forum

 

[Saxtonyoung]

Dale,

You mentioned you wished the WMC was made in 1:66 twist. I own a Pennsylvania Hunter Carbine barrel that is the same length ,same half octagon half round barrel profile with the 1:66 twist that fits into the WMC stock perfectly.

 

[Saxtonyoung]

I will research that and hopefully it comes with a picture. I bought a barrel that was made by Fox Ridge that was said to be a WMC barrel but it was a full octagon instead of the half octagon/half round and no where on the barrel did it say White Mountain Carbine only Thompson center and Fox Ridge was on the barrel.

 

[Saxtonyoung]

Chorizo,

I found the WMC you were talking about, a 54 caliber. Thanks for the update.

 

[chorizo]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2660651916...n5D18iytw1d7/Cr9ZZBvCtulM=|tkp:Bk9SR_qy0NTJYQ

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Dale,

You mentioned you wished the WMC was made in 1:66 twist. I own a Pennsylvania Hunter Carbine barrel that is the same length ,same half octagon half round barrel profile with the 1:66 twist that fits into the WMC stock perfectly.

I did?!!! Then it was a mistake. I never saw one with a slow twist... only 1:48 and 1:20 or 1:28. Or did you mean the other Dale?