Swamped barrel on a .45

[M. De Land]

Need to consider what weight of swamp A B C D, makes a huge difference.

The other thing is that swamping a barrel seldom produces the best accuracy the barrel is capable of . You won't find many in serious accuracy bench competition I'm told of a friend who has frequented Friendship competition. They are meant for off hand shooting because they balance so well.
They are plenty accurate for hunting though and heft like a dream.
Swamps are not usually as close to the bore (narrow) at the waist as they look but the double taper makes it appear that way.

 

[olskool]

like my old pappy said, while hunting you tote one more than shoot one, get the swamped,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[French Colonial]

I have had straight, octagon to round and swamped and I only have one straight barrel left in the herd and it is the first rifle I ever built, a thin barreled .32.

Sold every other straight barrel as I am not a bench shooter (at least with BP) and a swamped barrel handles the best IMHO.

Doing this since the 70's and never seen one fail, get bulged or any other issue and I have seen some whacky stuff from guys being stupid.

 

[Mike in FL]

Swamped for me.

 

[M. De Land]

I have had straight, octagon to round and swamped and I only have one straight barrel left in the herd and it is the first rifle I ever built, a thin barreled .32.

Sold every other straight barrel as I am not a bench shooter (at least with BP) and a swamped barrel handles the best IMHO.

Doing this since the 70's and never seen one fail, get bulged or any other issue and I have seen some whacky stuff from guys being stupid.

Imagine draw filing a swamp by hand like it was done in the old days. I've draw filed a lot of barrels making them ready for rust bluing or browning and even that is quite a job especially if you also draw file under the stock which I consider to be correct barrel finish etiquette.

 

[French Colonial]

Speaking of the old days.
I ASSUME (please note the assume part) that when a barrel skelp is forge welded around a mandrel it does not end up being a straight octagon anyway and the person doing the hammering probably hammers the waist a little thinner to start with.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

My 45 cal 42 inch Rice swamped barrel is the best shooter Ive ever shot.
My prior one was octagon to round, and this swamped barrel is better balanced.

 

[M. De Land]

My 45 cal 42 inch Rice swamped barrel is the best shooter Ive ever shot.
My prior one was octagon to round, and this swamped barrel is better balanced.

Keep in mind Rice barrels (last I checked) are made of 12L14 so pay attention to loading details like short starting ,full ball seating on powder charge and double charging.
I have shooting friends that like Rice barrels and they look wonderfully machined.

 

[Dartwick]

In most cases - the lightest straight barrel for a given caliber and length will weigh less than the lightest swamped barrel for that caliber and length.

Im not at all recommending against a swamped barrel - they look really nice - and many historic guns have them.

But take the magical balance and weight claims with a bit of salt.

 

[French Colonial]

In most cases - the lightest straight barrel for a given caliber and length will weigh less than the lightest swamped barrel for that caliber and length.

Im not at all recommending against a swamped barrel - they look really nice - and many historic guns have them.

But take the magical balance and weight claims with a bit of salt.

One of the best things a guy can do is shoulder as many rifles as possible, a trip to somewhere like DGW where you can shoulder lots of guns will open your eyes.

I was thinking about buying a production gun just to play with and see what all the fuss was about and went to Dixie and shouldered a Pedersoli Mortimer, Scout, Jaeger and they had some Tradition rifles as well. Long story short I ended up not caring for any of them as they felt clumsy compared to what I already have.

I did end up with a Euroarms 1803 Harpers Ferry that I bought this spring and have not had time to play with yet but that has a octagon to round barrel and it balances pretty well, not great but not bad.

Pretty much all swamped 12L14 barrels for all those years.....

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Dont use a short starter and limit my charges to within the Davenport Formula, and it aint blowned up since 2005.
Soon as I croak, it will be the grandsons problem

 

[Red Owl]

I haven't done a swamped barrel yet, how much harder is it to inlet into the stock?

 

[hanshi]

I'm a fan of swamped barrels and have a few. But back when I hunted my go-to deer rifle was a Late Lancaster style with a .45 13/16" X 36" and is a flintlock. I have another .45 that has a "B" wgt swamped X 38" round groove Rice barrel. The 36" X 13/16" straight barrel .45 weighs an easy-packing 7 lbs and is good in every way. The 38" X B wgt radius groove .45 weighs 7 lbs & 11 oz. Swamped barrels do have a different feel as compared with straight barrels but it's a bit difficult (for me at least) to fully describe and has to be felt in order to understand.

If I wanted a dedicated rifle for targets and matches only it would wear a straight tube. But if I wanted a rifle for hunting, casual shooting AND all around use it would be swamped with radius groove bore.

 

[M. De Land]

I have had straight, octagon to round and swamped and I only have one straight barrel left in the herd and it is the first rifle I ever built, a thin barreled .32.

Sold every other straight barrel as I am not a bench shooter (at least with BP) and a swamped barrel handles the best IMHO.

Doing this since the 70's and never seen one fail, get bulged or any other issue and I have seen some whacky stuff from guys being stupid.

I've only seen one fail from a normal charge, short start ball, but have known of the weakness of 12L14 since Douglas barrel had their legal trouble with barrels made of the alloy and owning a Douglas barrel my self.
This barrel ( not a Douglas) was swamped and came apart at the waist . Douglas stopped making muzzle loading barrels for this reason I have read.
I also read a metallurgist report on the alloy some 30 years ago and it explained in good detail the alloys history, usage and weakness. Hot rolled 12L14 has a little better stress numbers for shock loading radial strength than does cold rolled but still is not certified by the industry as of barrel steel quality.
From a practical stand point the alloy is still probably stronger than some early hammer forged, seam welded, iron barrels but then they are not the modern standard for barrel steel.

 

[springfield art]

I'd like your opinions on a rifle in the building stage. I have ordered a Flint long rifle with a 36 inch barrel in .45 and I'm thinking of a change order from a straight barrel to swamped.
This is intended for hunting in Central Pa. And I was thinking it might be a bit easier handling. What do you think ?

Most would go with the Swamped.

 

[smokepolehall]

Maybe most would want the swamped, if i could not hold up a straight octagon of longer length. Then you have options like 13/16 " or 7/8" dia. Shorter in length or tapered.

 

[French Colonial]

I've only seen one fail from a normal charge, short start ball, but have known of the weakness of 12L14 since Douglas barrel had their legal trouble with barrels made of the alloy and owning a Douglas barrel my self.
This barrel ( not a Douglas) was swamped and came apart at the waist . Douglas stopped making muzzle loading barrels for this reason I have read.
I also read a metallurgist report on the alloy some 30 years ago and it explained in good detail the alloys history, usage and weakness. Hot rolled 12L14 has a little better stress numbers for shock loading radial strength than does cold rolled but still is not certified by the industry as of barrel steel quality.
From a practical stand point the alloy is still probably stronger than some early hammer forged, seam welded, iron barrels but then they are not the modern standard for barrel steel.

Never seen one fail, never heard of one failing from people I know over 40+ years and I have seen some people overload them being stupid.

Guess I can say I am not worried about it.

 

[M. De Land]

Never seen one fail, never heard of one failing from people I know over 40+ years and I have seen some people overload them being stupid.

Guess I can say I am not worried about it.

That's reasonable and I still shoot my Douglas barreled .54 but any I make henceforth will only be of gun certified barrel steel After my suspicions of it's strength was verified two year ago by a 12L14 barrel that failed in my presence, I feel folks should know the truth and decide for themselves.
I took this barrel back to my shop and examined it thuroughly with bore scope and opti-visor. It split along a groove corner starting in the narrow part of the swamp waist.

 

[French Colonial]

That's reasonable and I still shoot my Douglas barreled .54 but any I make henceforth will only be of gun certified barrel steel After my suspicions of it's strength was verified two year ago by a 12L14 barrel that failed in my presence, I feel folks should know the truth and decide for themselves.
I took this barrel back to my shop and examined it thuroughly with bore scope and opti-visor. It split along a groove corner starting in the narrow part of the swamp waist.

I read accounts on this forum of guys shooting inexpensive India firearms with questionable barrels that need to be drilled for touch holes and lots of them say they shoot great and no problems. There is a thread going on this forum now about Traditions firearms that some say are questionable.

I have seen guys shoot ramrods down range (serious overload) and double load to let some unsuspecting newbie get a surprise when he shoots his "friends" firearm.

And I have a friend who blew up a Glock, bought a Sig and using his same reloads blew that up as well before finally deciding his loads were a little too hot. Which shows that almost anything can fail if you try hard enough.

I think a lot of guys in this sport use to much powder, for .50 to .62 my personal opinion is if your using from about 60 to 80 grains your probably in the ballpark.

Bottom line, if you pay attention to what your doing (hard to do when you have people chattering at you sometimes at a match) and are not trying to "magnumize" your BP gun I think most ML barrels will give not only you but future generations very good service.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I'm a fan of swamped barrels and have a few. But back when I hunted my go-to deer rifle was a Late Lancaster style with a .45 13/16" X 36" and is a flintlock. I have another .45 that has a "B" wgt swamped X 38" round groove Rice barrel. The 36" X 13/16" straight barrel .45 weighs an easy-packing 7 lbs and is good in every way. The 38" X B wgt radius groove .45 weighs 7 lbs & 11 oz. Swamped barrels do have a different feel as compared with straight barrels but it's a bit difficult (for me at least) to fully describe and has to be felt in order to understand.

If I wanted a dedicated rifle for targets and matches only it would wear a straight tube. But if I wanted a rifle for hunting, casual shooting AND all around use it would be swamped with radius groove bore.

My 1833 577 is coming in at 12lbs