Smooth Rifle

[Loyalist Dave]

I'm planning to build a smooth rifle.
I already have a NW trade gun in .62, and an Isaac Haines in .45. so I'd like to go with a smooth rifle mainly for hunting.
I'm thinking a Beck, in .54 octagon to round 42" Rice barrel.
If you have a smooth rifle, I'd like to see pictures.
I'd like to see how it shoots for you.

@Britsmoothy has at least one as he's posted photos of his using it on game, (iirc) it's a .45 that is now a smoothbore. I think his were converted over from rifles. He's in the UK but he hunts all the time, so you might PM him or he might chime in with how well they work.

LD

 

[Britsmoothy]

Spence has historical reference to "smoothrifle".

Mine is a simple reproduction of a generic Kentucky type rifle in .45 sans any rifling.
Before a well meaning member of a forum, concerned for my good reputation contacted his police force who then contacted my police force who then contacted me to discourage me from being in breach of firearms law, I use to shoot ball from it regularly. Hunted rabbits with it for the most part and shot many a respectable group beyond 50 paces.
Ironically, I can legally load 5x.36" buck shot or ball and it works very well indeed. It is actually more deadly than one .445" ball! But that's law makers for you. Oh yes, it was awesome, before I knew it was wrong (), with two .445" balls.

Now I just use shot in it and it is very efficient wing shooting or otherwise.
Had it some years now. Never disappoints.
A .50 would be an awesome choice.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Smooth rifle was said back in the day, also rifle mounted fusil
My Lancaster style largely modeled after HinesView attachment 110437

That is a gorgeous piece of wood!

 

[tenngun]

Yes and it was ‘plain’

 

[Brokennock]

Agreed Brokennock, Why has this thread become people confused on what a smooth rifle is.... That's not what I asked...I asked for pics of a smooth rifle if anyone on here owned one, and how they liked it.

Like stated:
It's a rifle styled gun with a rear sight in a smoothbore barrel.
If it's only got a front sight it's a smoothbore or as fowler.

Sorry, I forgot the pic request part.
Here's some pics of mine,

TVM "Early Virginia" smoothrifle. 20 gauge octagon to round barrel, steel furniture (I would prefer brass, and would prefer a patchbox), standard front and rear sights for this style gun, double set triggers.
I love the concept and practicality of a smoothrifle for the type of hunting I do with a muzzleloader. Most of my hunting even with shot is stationary or barely moving targets, squirrels, sitting rabbits, and turkeys, then roundball for deer. I do very little wingshooting with a flintlock, though you can see that it does work for that when the stars align correctly. I am not the best wingshooter to begin with and a properly fit fowling piece or SxS shotgun would be better for this. I am happy with roundball accuracy once proper loads were worked up. Same with patterning shot, though I think this part is more work, but no different than working up a shotload for a fowling piece.
The only negative I find is not necessarily the fault of the smoothrifle as a concept, I think it is a builder/construction issue, and that is weight. Weight and what Col. Cooper called, "handiness." This gun is heavy and just doesn't handle as well when compared to my Fusil des Chase. But, felt recoil is less and it has better shot to shot accuracy with roundball.

I think a properly built smoothrifle, no extra weight/bulk, even better if fitted to the shooter like a fowling piece with correct l.o.p. and other fit measurements would be a joy.

 

[Juniata]

Without diggin out my KRA disc I believe Beck built several smooth rifles. Most around .50 caliber. I have one in .54 caliber and hunt with it often. Killed a doe this year with it. I can barely tell the difference in offhand accuracy at 40-50 yards with it on a good day. Mine has a 44" B weight swamped octagon barrel on it so is very light., 7.6#s. a B weight barrel is too small to have rifling cut in it so smooth is the only way to get a B weight .54

Very nice! I know I built my rice B weight in .45, and I know .50 is the largest hole you can go with in a rifle, didn't realize you could go .54 in a smooth. I bet it's light!

 

[Juniata]

TC Penn Hunter .50 outfitted with a 33” smoothbore barrel. Haven’t taken any critters with it yet. But it has been a fun tinker toy for shot. Does just fine with a PRB. For fun, I took a shot at 100 yards and still managed to drop it just a few inches from the bullseye. Bought from a forum member.

That's great shooting

 

[smoothshooter]

I have scoured the 'net for a definition of a smoothrifle - have not found one.........
The only references that pop up are on threads here at the muzzleloadingforum.....

Check Spence’s posts on the subject.
They did exist and period newspaper advertisements list newly made ones for sale.

 

[tenngun]

I have scoured the 'net for a definition of a smoothrifle - have not found one.........
The only references that pop up are on threads here at the muzzleloadingforum.....

As said they were advertised in the past
People tended to be sloppy with language and some things are called by odd names.
A sloop is a single mast small ship, unless it’s a sloop of war then it’s a three masted light frigate mounting twenty guns or less. Unless it’s a brig. Guns shold have been mounted on the gun deck but in brigs were often on the weather deck and the gun deck was too close to the water line to mount guns on. So it served as a berth deck but British ships didn’t have berth decks but American ships did unless it was an unrated ship in the British navy then the orlap became a berth
A true sloop should be a sloop unless it was a snow but snows could be brigs or ketches while a bomb ketch could be a true ketch or three masted ship rig. But it might be a barque or a brigantine but it would still be a bomb ketch, unless they took out the mortars and used it as a sloop of war, even thought it’s not a sloop….
Then a riflemans frock, hunters frock hunters shirt riflemans shirt wamus camus aaaggghhhh
If one is intelligent he should have intelligence unless he is just a reporter, then intelligence is information, just news, unless it’s spy stuff oh my

 

[tenngun]

Sorry, I forgot the pic request part.
Here's some pics of mine,
View attachment 110498View attachment 110497View attachment 110495View attachment 110499View attachment 110500View attachment 110501View attachment 110496
TVM "Early Virginia" smoothrifle. 20 gauge octagon to round barrel, steel furniture (I would prefer brass, and would prefer a patchbox), standard front and rear sights for this style gun, double set triggers.
I love the concept and practicality of a smoothrifle for the type of hunting I do with a muzzleloader. Most of my hunting even with shot is stationary or barely moving targets, squirrels, sitting rabbits, and turkeys, then roundball for deer. I do very little wingshooting with a flintlock, though you can see that it does work for that when the stars align correctly. I am not the best wingshooter to begin with and a properly fit fowling piece or SxS shotgun would be better for this. I am happy with roundball accuracy once proper loads were worked up. Same with patterning shot, though I think this part is more work, but no different than working up a shotload for a fowling piece.
The only negative I find is not necessarily the fault of the smoothrifle as a concept, I think it is a builder/construction issue, and that is weight. Weight and what Col. Cooper called, "handiness." This gun is heavy and just doesn't handle as well when compared to my Fusil des Chase. But, felt recoil is less and it has better shot to shot accuracy with roundball.

I think a properly built smoothrifle, no extra weight/bulk, even better if fitted to the shooter like a fowling piece with correct l.o.p. and other fit measurements would be a joy.

I came real close to a Virginia style when I made mine
That’s a good looking little girl.

 

[Griz44Mag]

As said they were advertised in the past
People tended to be sloppy with language and some things are called by odd names.
A sloop is a single mast small ship, unless it’s a sloop of war then it’s a three masted light frigate mounting twenty guns or less. Unless it’s a brig. Guns shold have been mounted on the gun deck but in brigs were often on the weather deck and the gun deck was too close to the water line to mount guns on. So it served as a berth deck but British ships didn’t have berth decks but American ships did unless it was an unrated ship in the British navy then the orlap became a berth
A true sloop should be a sloop unless it was a snow but snows could be brigs or ketches while a bomb ketch could be a true ketch or three masted ship rig. But it might be a barque or a brigantine but it would still be a bomb ketch, unless they took out the mortars and used it as a sloop of war, even thought it’s not a sloop….
Then a riflemans frock, hunters frock hunters shirt riflemans shirt wamus camus aaaggghhhh
If one is intelligent he should have intelligence unless he is just a reporter, then intelligence is information, just news, unless it’s spy stuff oh my

Ok, I think, I'm definitely not an ocean person. Yes I can swim, but I stay out of the ocean. Salt water lakes are OK, I've been to the one in Utah. There are too many things in the ocean that like to eat soft human tissue. We don't have things like that in our lakes, I'm OK with a ski boat on a fresh water lake and pretty darn good on a slalom (even at the brink of 70)
(Think Indianapolis)
"the sinking of Indianapolis resulted in the most shark attacks on humans in history, and attributes the attacks to the oceanic whitetip shark species. Tiger sharks may also have killed some sailors." I don't think the sharks counted masts or cannons before dinner.

 

[RiverRat]

Here is a Chamber’s kit in 54 cal/28 ga, assembled by Mark Wheland.

 

[Juniata]

Here is a Chamber’s kit in 54 cal/28 ga, assembled by Mark Wheland.

Love the characteristics of the Chambers!
Not a fan of that heavy wall on that barrel tho, extra weight.
My trade gun is that way, it's a colerain

 

[JCKelly]

As shown earlier, this is a Henry Deringer smooth rifle, apparently made for the Indian trade. Straight octagonal
barrel 40” long, 1" across the flats. 53 cal. smooth bore.

Barrel markings similar to those on p. 155, Firearms in Colonial America suggest it was likely made under Gov’t contract for the Indian Trade. Eight engraved "snowflakes". Breech engraved with triangular marks, not shown here.

Bought from the late Cecil C. Keyser, 1969.

 

[RiverRat]

Love the characteristics of the Chambers!
Not a fan of that heavy wall on that barrel tho, extra weight.
My trade gun is that way, it's a colerain

This barrel is also a colerain and with a patched .520 RBI’s, it will shoot rifle like groups at 40 yards.

 

[cynthialee]

With all those beautiful smooth rifles I feel sheepish about my TC .56 Beat up stock that has been on the hunt many years and a barrel obviously newer than the stock. Shoots great though. I like the concept of such a gun.

 

[Nuthatch]

That's great shooting

To be fair, I was using shooting sticks, standing, & resting my butt on the tailgate of the pickup. I was testing the load, not my skills. I determined that the load combo was good. My skill-level, on the other hand, isn't nearly so. Off-hand or kneeling, I won't shoot beyond 50 yards because my 6" gong has been far too safe from my efforts at that distance. At 50 yards & further, I want a solid rest (tree, rock, etc.), steady nerves and plenty of time.

 

[Nuthatch]

Here is a Chamber’s kit in 54 cal/28 ga, assembled by Mark Wheland.

Eye candy there.

 

[Nuthatch]

Ok, I think, I'm definitely not an ocean person. Yes I can swim, but I stay out of the ocean. Salt water lakes are OK, I've been to the one in Utah. There are too many things in the ocean that like to eat soft human tissue. We don't have things like that in our lakes, I'm OK with a ski boat on a fresh water lake and pretty darn good on a slalom (even at the brink of 70)
(Think Indianapolis)
"the sinking of Indianapolis resulted in the most shark attacks on humans in history, and attributes the attacks to the oceanic whitetip shark species. Tiger sharks may also have killed some sailors." I don't think the sharks counted masts or cannons before dinner.

Being a CA guy, I used to surf a bit. Not so much lately due to kids & lack of time. But I feel much more risk with all this BP stuff than I ever did with sharks or other ocean risks. Both are pretty safe. In both cases, keeping calm & your wits about you helps a ton.

 

[smoothshooter]

I'm planning to build a smooth rifle.
I already have a NW trade gun in .62, and an Isaac Haines in .45. so I'd like to go with a smooth rifle mainly for hunting.
I'm thinking a Beck, in .54 octagon to round 42" Rice barrel.
If you have a smooth rifle, I'd like to see pictures.
I'd like to see how it shoots for you.

I have been shooting one off and on for about 21 years.
Isaac Haines type 54 caliber, 38” swamped barrel, rifle sights, sliding wood patch box, and flintlock. Have even won prizes in woods walk competitions with more than just a few participants, all of them shooting rifles. Works good with shot out to about 25 to 30 yards. Am considering having it jug choked. Ball loads good for deer sized targets out to about 75 yards, sometimes farther.