Small cannon (?) for coments

[Viana]

Please help,
I have bought this piece in a street fair, as being a 16/17th century cannon.
Its dimensions are: height 18cms. diameter 7cms. and bore about 4cms. at the mouth ... it looks a bit narrower at the bottom.
Its interior has a sort of thin sleeve, apparently some sort of harder metal reinforcing.
Would anybody have an idea of what this device could really be?
Thanks a lot in advance.
Fernando

 

[robinghewitt]

If it is a gun I'd guess a removeable cannon breech block. They used to wedge them in.

OTOH removeable blocks usually had handles :hmm:

Touch hole looks a bit enormous even allowing for rust.

Still fun though, I'd have bought it if I'd seen it :thumbsup:

 

[flintlock75]

By the size of it, it appears to be a barrel from a handcannon, I have 2 replica's of one's that were copied from a German example from the 1450's. This was mounted on a short pole 1' to 4' depending on the length of the barrel, mine has a 10" barrel on an 16" pole. The pole has a shallow groove cut in one side about 2" shorter than the barrel, it was then bound to the pole with 3 iron bands, The touchhole on top, you would then fire it with a length of slowmatch. The pole was generaly tucked under the arm to hold it. The metal appears to be cast iron, the thin metal liner was made to create a smoother bore and the iron was cast around it.I would suspect that it was made very early 16th century. I hopee this is helpfull.

 

[Viana]

Grrreat, Flintlock75.
I am much obliged for your input; it makes a lot of sense. I will gladly digest such info.
Any other members care for further coments?

 

[Viana]

Hi Flintlock75,
Can we come back to the measurements part?
You say your barrel is 10" long and the pole has 16". How do you consider these 16 inches? Is this including the section under the barrel ? Meaning that if the barrel sticks out 2 inches from its wooden "bay", you have only 8 inches "plain" pole.
Is this correct?
I'll be much obliged for your reply.
Fernando

 

[flintlock75]

That is correct, the model i have is made for one handed use, Hold the gun with one hand and use the other to put the slowmatch to the powder at the vent. I have a 12" stick about pencil size with a brass holder on the end for the match. This keeps the fingers from getting singed.
Since I am 800 miles from home i cant show a picture right now, I will try to post some next weekend when i get home.

 

[Teleoceras]

Flintlock75:

A bore of 4cm is 1.5". A 1 pounder is rather large for a Handgonne. At least a hand portable one. Looking at the pictures and hearing it is from the 16th/17th Century, I wonder if it could have been something similar to a swivel gun on a naval vessel.

Slowmatch Forever!
Teleoceras

 

[flintlock75]

Take a look at the wikipedia page under Hand Gonnes, there is a very good description and pictures of examples. you would be supprised at the size of some of these Hand Gonnes. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hand_cannon&oldid=225178328

 

[Viana]

Thanks for your answer.
I will love to see those pictures.

 

[Viana]

Measuring the barrel bottom, i get 3,3 cms, which is not much of a difference, though it counts for this issue.
On the other hand, this barrel seems a bit short for a swivel cannon; am i talking nonsense?

 

This is conjecture on my part. I believe that this is one of a set. Sets of barrels, such as this, were mounted with metal bands to hold them in place on wooden blocks. One set of this type of barrel resides in Higgins Armory, located in Worcester, Massachusetts, USA. If memory serves, that specimen has four barrels, and appeared to have been mounted in a swivel mount for castle fortification.

A simpler source of origin is that it is that it could be a signal cannon, though they did tend to have a broader base.

 

Beautiful Chartreux. Love the breed. I have had 3 over the years. Fine companions all. Loyal to the owner. Dog like in attitude.

CP

 

[Viana]

Hi there in the bayou.
Thanks much for your input. Have you seen this personally in Worcester, or are there any pictures available?
Fernando

 

[Viana]

A Chartreux yes ... though without a pedigree.
But just as you say ... the best friend i ever had.
I am not ashamed to confess that tears came to my eyes for a good couple months after he has gone.
... ans still consider it my ideal avatar.
Fernando

 

[Viana]

The Internet miracle !!!!!!!
Are you by any chance referring to this,Claypipe? http://users.wpi.edu/~jforgeng/CollectionIQP/artifact.pl?anum=952
How long ago have you seen it ?
Unlikely the case of my specimen, don't you think so?
... or was it something else?
Fernando

 

Yes, I have, on several occasions, seen this in person. The picture that you refer to is the exact piece that I spoke of.

Without a careful inspection of your piece, it is difficult to surmise its purpose. Its use can range from signal device, to handgonne barrel, even to use to loosen soot from a smoke stack.

I do, however, believe that it is hand forged and not a cast piece.

How much did you pay for it? I apologize if I pry too far.

CP

 

[Viana]

No problem,CP.
We can even swap info. I tell you how much i paid for it and you tell me what you think of such price.
It cost me the nowadays equivalent to US$ 270,00.
Fernando

 

$270.00usd seems about right, though one or two of my fellow forum members may disagree. I've seen documented broellers go for three to four times that amount.

I love the feelings one gets with tactile contact of antiquities.

CP

 

[Viana]

Well, i assumed this was in fact a hand cannon and went on trying to have a stock/pole reproduced for it.
I followed the shape of both replicas of a well known 14th century Switz cannon and one that i recently spotted at the Lisbon Military Museum, also replicating a 14th century model.
Here is the result.
I have tried for the wood turner, iron smith and myself to give it a touch of rusticity, but i will spare you from the details; you guys now a lot more about these things than i dream to, so you will see for yourselves.
Fernando

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[widget350]

Your tiller looks nicely made and aged to me. I'm no expert on the authenticity of it, but it seems to fit the piece well.