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Slow ignition on my Deerstalker

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theHoofer

32 Cal.
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
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I just bought a Lyman 50 cal deerstalker, and I'm back at ML'ing again after 20 years away. I think I've got some issue with dirt or debris in the nipple channel, because I'm getting fairly slow ignition. It sounds like a flintlock when I fire - there's a noticable time lag between the cap firing and the charge some of the time - especially my first few shots at the range. If I remember right, my past percussion rifles just went BOOM!. This one is more like Click/Boom!
It might be the way I'm cleaning it. Is there a surefire way to make sure the nipple channel is clean and dry?
 
Before I shoot mine after cleaning it I pop one or two caps on it to dry the channel out. I then take the nipple out clean it good and then clean the channel out with pipe cleaners. I took the #11 nipples out of my rifles and changed them over to shoot musket caps. I get lots more fire with them. My rifles shoot just as fast as a center fire rifle...Dont forget to put some kind of anti-seize on the nipple threads...
 
I just picked up a Deerstalker (54 cal) for my wife, and she's had no similar problems so far in testing Goex 2f and 3f or Pyro P and RS. And we're talking at least a couple of dozen shots per session.

The first thing I did with the rifle may be making all the difference though. I took the stock Lyman nipple and tossed it off the 100 foot cliff in front of our house. Literally! And it felt good.

I really dislike those things. I can't remember whether I replaced it with a Buttler Creek nipple or a Hot Shot from TC. Doesn't matter, because either works infinitely better than the Lyman.

BTW- Congrats on the new purchase. If it shoots as well as my wife's or any other that I've heard of, you're in for some real fun.
 
The proper patch and cleaning jag/jags will get you clean to the face of the plug, pipe cleaners are good to clean out after removong the nipple/cleanout screw, after cleaning and drying and lubing with your choice of rust retardent, all the oil must be removed before loading and firing, alcohol soaked pathes followed by dry and pipe cleaners dipped in alcohol work for this, before loading pop a cap or two and hold the muzzle to something that will register the cap blast to confirm the works is clear, don't let a sloppy wet/lubed patch and ball rest on the charge for a long time,if you use pyro use the pistol grade, it takes less time to do than to write/read about it but this should work, replacement nipples are also a good idea, the #11 should be quite adequate I shot cappers for many years doing as above and never needed "super cap" keep at it and it will come around, main thing is to have a clear dry bore/flash chanel before loading, some use compressed air or a hair dryer the latter is probably a bit extreme, repeated wiping with good coton patches after an alcohol rinse should clean it up, have fun and keeps us posted, it is all pretty simple once we can get the Ducks to stay still in a straight row. I haven't shot cappers for quite a while but I am pretty sure the basics are still the same. Enjoy the journey.
 
Are you using Pyrodex ?......If so all of my caplock in the old days hangfired somewhat with it.....You could always percieve the hammer hitting the nipple a micro second before firing. Pryodex "P" seemed to solve it as does black powder................Bob
 
make sure there are no obstructions in the primer flame path.
When I load mine (BP) I make sure the drum is down so some of the powder will find its way into the drum/bolster.
 
I agree with the others.
First, make sure the flame channel from the nipple to the bore is clean with a pipe cleaner.

Replace the nipple with a good name brand nipple.

Use one of the finer granulations of powder.

Make sure the hammer is at half cock when you load.

Make sure the nipple doesn't have a fired cap still on it before you load.

If your using Pyrodex, 777 or any of the other Synthetic black powders you can expect a slight delay. These powders require more heat to ignite them. Using Magnum percussion caps will help reduce this lag.
 
Zonie said:
I agree with the others.
First, make sure the flame channel from the nipple to the bore is clean with a pipe cleaner.

Replace the nipple with a good name brand nipple.

Use one of the finer granulations of powder.

Make sure the hammer is at half cock when you load.

Make sure the nipple doesn't have a fired cap still on it before you load.

If your using Pyrodex, 777 or any of the other Synthetic black powders you can expect a slight delay. These powders require more heat to ignite them. Using Magnum percussion caps will help reduce this lag.

YEP! I shoot a Renengade w/ Pyrodex RS and use a musket cap with NO delay. The only issues Ive had on this and other ML's is A) NOT poping 2 to 3 caps to blow the oil out or B) I have an old CVA Mt Rifle that likes to be "tapped/shaken" to knock some powder into the flash channel to avoid the delay.
My opinion, Musket caps do it better!
 
Don't use any petroleum based oils in the barrel, or flashchannel. Use alcohol to dissolve and evaporate the oils that you do use in the barrel before loading it with powder. Petroleum based oils do not " BURN OUT " as most people who shoot percussion guns think. Instead, they partially burn, and leave a gooey high carbon residue where you can deal with it the least.

Firing off a cap to clean the bore or action is doubtful utility. I have used ONE cap fired after I had flushed the barrel and flash channel with alcohol, and given the alcohol a long enough time to evaporate. My concern was to burn any residual alcohol fumes in the flash channel so they would not " boost " the first shot's velocity. If the gun is allowed to sit for a half hour or more after the alcohol flush, I don't bother with that, either. I instead run a cleaning patch down the barrel to dry it out from any moisture that might have gotten into on the ride to the range or field. The air pushed ahead of the jag goes out the nipple, and drives out any possible remaining alcohol fumes that might be lingering under the nipple in the flash channel.

I have also used caps to test to make sure the nipple is cleared, watching the muzzle for flames when the cap is fired. But, I don't use it anymore to "burn out " oil in the flash channel or barrel. I did, before I learned the hard way.

I am trying to spare you, and others that " lesson ". :hatsoff:
 
Thanks guys. I've pulled the nipple and run pipe cleaners through it. I'm going to get another nipple, maybe even a musket one, but you can hardly buy anything for traditional ML'ers in Canada, and see how it goes.

BTW: I'm shooting triple 7. I also have a pound of Pyrodex RS. I guess I should get some P. Black powder is hard to get around here. Everybody shoots newfangled in-line guns with pellets and scopes. Aarrrghh.

Frank
 
Go to the top of the index to this forum, and scroll down to Member resources. Then scroll down to articles, charts and links. Click on the charts, and then on the links you find. That will give you a list of suppliers that sell ML stuff, and most have on-line catalogs. Click on the names, to get their information. You can order anything you need through the mails. There are members here who can tell you how to get Black Powder into Canada. I believe we have had some discussions on this topic, with the regulations from Ontario being specifically mentioned. Find those, and that should anwer your questions.

All the subs are hard to ignite. Most are now using Magnum caps to ignite those powders. Normal #11 caps ignite the powder, but with a noticeable delay, for some shooters. You will do much better shooting black powder. Use either 3Fg or 2Fg in the gun. 3Fg seems to work best in percussion ignition rifles, regardless of caliber.
 
paulvallandigham said:
Don't use any petroleum based oils in the barrel, or flashchannel. Use alcohol to dissolve and evaporate the oils that you do use in the barrel before loading it with powder. Petroleum based oils do not " BURN OUT " as most people who shoot percussion guns think. Instead, they partially burn, and leave a gooey high carbon residue where you can deal with it the least.

Firing off a cap to clean the bore or action is doubtful utility. I have used ONE cap fired after I had flushed the barrel and flash channel with alcohol, and given the alcohol a long enough time to evaporate. My concern was to burn any residual alcohol fumes in the flash channel so they would not " boost " the first shot's velocity. If the gun is allowed to sit for a half hour or more after the alcohol flush, I don't bother with that, either. I instead run a cleaning patch down the barrel to dry it out from any moisture that might have gotten into on the ride to the range or field. The air pushed ahead of the jag goes out the nipple, and drives out any possible remaining alcohol fumes that might be lingering under the nipple in the flash channel.

I have also used caps to test to make sure the nipple is cleared, watching the muzzle for flames when the cap is fired. But, I don't use it anymore to "burn out " oil in the flash channel or barrel. I did, before I learned the hard way.

I am trying to spare you, and others that " lesson ". :hatsoff:


OK so I see what you wrote but want to reiterate so that I am sure I've learnd the right thing....I HAVE been useing WD-40 to "oil" the barrel. You are saying that THAT is building up a residue in my flas-chamber area? The alcohol makes sence; are you just swabbing a patch or two?
Please and thank you..
 
"My concern was to burn any residual alcohol fumes in the flash channel so they would not " boost " the first shot's velocity. "

You gawda be kidding, you actualy think any minute alcohol fumes will effect velocity, if there were any fumes they would likley be pushed out when loading powder/ball...do you sit around thinking real hard about wierd stuff that will never be an issue?
 
WD40 does have dryers in it, and it leaves behind a gummy oil substance that can clog up the works. It did so on a couple of modern guns of mine. I still have some of the stuff, but I use it on external parts only. I also use it to oil equipment that is used hard, like lawn mower wheels and axles, or weedeaters, etc. I have used it on large bladed brush cutters, and on my bush trimmer. These go through lots of oil, and I use the Spray WD40 on them when in use. When they are put away, for storage, I wipe the WD40 off, and replace it with a better oil for the pivot screws, and use the WD40 on the exterior surfaces as a rust preventive. As long as the tools are hung up in my garage which is heated, I have had no rust problems.

I cannot recommend WD40 as a internal gun parts oil, after my experience. I do know guys who are shooting several times a week, and the time between shooting their guns is so short that the WD40 does not have time to dry out. They spray the actions with more WD40 before they begin shooting, wipe the residue off and out of the gun when they are done, and then spray more WD40 on the gun to prevent rust, and lubricate the parts for the next couple of day. I began doing that, too, but then I had a change in my work schedule that drastically reduced my time to go shooting. When I got back to the range, several months had passed, and the WD40 had dried. I had not prepped the guns prior to going to the range, and I had left the WD40 in my garage! I blame myself as much as WD40. However, I have not experienced this problem using other oils, like Rem-oil, Tefloil, and others.
 
TG: I don't worry about this in my flintlocks, which have traditional flat faced breechplugs. I do worry about them in my percussion shotgun, because it has a flash channel, and alcohol can be held there wet for longer periods of time under the nipple. Oh, I have surprised myself with some serious blue flames coming out the barrel when I fired caps off on that shotgun too soon after cleaning the barrel with alcohol. Since I normally don't remove the nipple when I flush the gun with alcohol, alcohol can remain in that small space, without adequate ventilation to let it evaporate fast enough.

So, yes, I am overly cautious. I find that most people take extra steps at being cautious when they have had an unexpected surprise.

Have you ever seen a potato gun fire? It uses any alcohol as an accelerant, as well as other flammable solvents.
 
theHoofer said:
.....It sounds like a flintlock when I fire - there's a noticable time lag between the cap firing and the charge some of the time - especially my first few shots at the range....

That's strange, my flintlock goes boom immediately when I pull the trigger....
However, your statement may be true when applied to lower-end production models or if something is out of whack with the flintlock.
 
WD40 is great stuff...for that squeeky hinge,the padlock on the shed or the hood latch on an old Ford but keep it away from your MLs! In Oregon it is ILLEGAL to have WD40 and a muzzleloader in your possession at the same time!!!! :wink:
 
Okay -- I'll bite -- you're kidding, right? :v Or is this one of those laws like not carrying wire cutters in your saddle bags in Texas -- or owning a dead whale in (I think) Iowa? :rotf:
 
Parson,

Now look, my saintly dad told me it was no wire cutters in your hip pocket. :wink:

Jay
 
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