Silly question about powder charges

[RRidgely52]

I don't disagree with you, and that's precisely what I intend to do, pick a charge to start with and shoot it.
But I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to guns and I'd like to learn all the nomenclature around these.

Start with 70 grains of fffg, go from there....

 

[PastorB]

Greetings,
I have what may be a silly question to experienced folks, but I'm new to traditional style muzzleloaders.
I was looking at the Investarm website and found my rifle (a .54 caliber carbine).
There's a tab for maximum loads.
The charges it gives are:

.530 round ball: FFG - 6,50 grs
26 grs ovial bullet: FFFG - 4,55 grs

So my silly question: What the heck is grs?
It obviously isn't grains.

Any help would be great.

Thanks,

Let's keep this simple. That short barreled rifle will not burn "magnum" charges of powder efficiently. Additionally you don't need those kind of loads to take deer, bear or even elk. Get some .530 round balls, a pre-lubed .015 patch (or .018 ticking, doesn't matter) and charge with 60 grains (volume measure, not weight) of 3F powder. I have never had a .54, and I have a few, that doesn't shoot accurately with that load. If you want, go as high as 70 grains to get a few more fps, if your rifle shoots it accurately. I find it unnecessary, as deer just die quickly and cleanly with the load mentioned. In 48 years of muzzleloading, I have never used a combo of platypus milk, mink oil, nor Ballistol, as a patch lubricant. I've done ok, I reckon, and my guns barrels are pristine after 4+ decades of use. But hey, it's a free world, go crazy with exotic concoctions if that is an attractive option for you! I actually used an Investarms "Hawken" this year to get a nice buck, using the exact load I described. Dropped in his tracks at 65 yards, don't see the need for more "power".

 

[coupe]

Arkansas Paul, reread all the posts again. Some of the info there may not have clicked the first time around, there is a lot to gather from these guys.
Use a measure and no shaking or tapping the measure you are going for consistency in your loads. When you settle on a load try throwing 3-5 measures and weigh each to get an average then use that weight to load tubes of powder by weight, to be as close as possible while working on ball, patch and the lube you settle on. If done this way you only have introduced 3 variables (one at a time) looking for the accuracy you want. The key is ONE variable at a time then you see what works and what doesn’!

 

[Bad Karma]

Greetings,
I have what may be a silly question to experienced folks, but I'm new to traditional style muzzleloaders.
I was looking at the Investarm website and found my rifle (a .54 caliber carbine).
There's a tab for maximum loads.
The charges it gives are:

.530 round ball: FFG - 6,50 grs
26 grs ovial bullet: FFFG - 4,55 grs

So my silly question: What the heck is grs?
It obviously isn't grains.

Any help would be great.

Thanks,

You might take a look at this calculator, it’s an interesting exercise that may be useful in determining your most efficient load. (Which may or may not be the most accurate load) in terms of efficiency, 80 grains of 3 or 4f powder is pretty good, although in a modern muzzleloader in good repair, with a 1” barrel and fresh cones, 100 grains of 4f will yield nearly 2000 fps from a 24” barrel…

@Britsmoothy to the white courtesy phone please.

 

[johnraleksa]

Let's keep this simple. That short barreled rifle will not burn "magnum" charges of powder efficiently. Additionally you don't need those kind of loads to take deer, bear or even elk. Get some .530 round balls, a pre-lubed .015 patch (or .018 ticking, doesn't matter) and charge with 60 grains (volume measure, not weight) of 3F powder. I have never had a .54, and I have a few, that doesn't shoot accurately with that load. If you want, go as high as 70 grains to get a few more fps, if your rifle shoots it accurately. I find it unnecessary, as deer just die quickly and cleanly with the load mentioned. In 48 years of muzzleloading, I have never used a combo of platypus milk, mink oil, nor Ballistol, as a patch lubricant. I've done ok, I reckon, and my guns barrels are pristine after 4+ decades of use. But hey, it's a free world, go crazy with exotic concoctions if that is an attractive option for you! I actually used an Investarms "Hawken" this year to get a nice buck, using the exact load I described. Dropped in his tracks at 65 yards, don't see the need for more "power".

I don't shoot paper targets. When I check my guns for hunting I shoot at something I think is as tough as the animal I'm hunting. Hide, plus bone, plus intestinal stuff. Used phone books ,water jugs, plywood, ect. If it goes through any of them and kept going it will kill. Shoot at a certain distances I know I'll see that animal at. Use the less about of powder I can ,knowing it will kill. Most people don't have any idea of the power of black powder when shooting a gun.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Thank you everyone for the information.
I've been shooting since I was big enough to keep both ends of the gun off the ground, but blackpowder is an entirely different animal and I'm trying to soak it all in.

I bought a .530 mold today, so hopefully it arrives one day next week and I can start pouring some lead.
I'm excited to get after it.

 

[Travler]

Good luck! I shoot 70 grain volume of FFg or sometimes FFg with 530 patched round ball.

Patches and lube make a huge difference as well. If I am target shooting I use a water-soluble oil based "moose milk". With this I can shoot 20 to 30 shots without swab. Thicker patches up the pressure and will modulate your group. Things to try....have fun!

If I am hunting I grease the patch and no moose milk. I want to have the load in there for hours with nothing wet getting to my powder....

 

[wiscoaster]

....

I kind of have a different philosophy. For target shooting, I'll go with the most accurate load within limits. For hunting, I prefer the most powerful load that achieves hunting accuracy within the limits of the gun. As always, every gun varies as do the preferences of the owner.

Excellent philosophy.

Suit the load to the purpose of the shot and the preference of the shooter.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I visited a local muzzleloading shop this morning and have procured 2f powder and lubed patches.
The mold will be here at the end of next week.
I'm about ready to make some smoke.

 

[necchi]

The charges it gives are:

.530 round ball: FFG - 6,50 grs
26 grs ovial bullet: FFFG - 4,55 grs

So my silly question: What the heck is grs?
It obviously isn't grains.

If your going to be flippant with those kinds of petty (spl?) while asking serious,, what you'll most likely get is flippant.
Sorry, the archives are here, your asking nothing newer than being new.
Understood.
Do you want the answer(?) or knowledge(?)

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Edited to remove a knee jerk response.
I have to watch that sometimes.

 

[Rudyard]

For a few years I’ve been picking up antique powder flasks here and there. I’m a big fan of the Dixon, Hawkesly, and others using adjustable spouts marked in drams. Easy to use frankly much higher quality than anything I’ve bought new in my lifetime…

Hawksley's On Rockingham Street where bought out By Dixons' Cornish place' Neepsend, both Sheffield makers all sizes and grades but the double shutter Flash proof are he best sort .Dixon only stopped trading in the 70s.maybe early 80s at Cornish place & lastly Heeley as I was a regular customer . But they did make powder flasks from their original Dies encouraged by a Mr Bennet a Manchester' Textile merchant , including the Colt Eagle and other styles .A new book on UK flasks and related accoutrements' is finally printed, I get a mention as I lived in Sheffield and was able to loan Dixons old records. But I havn,t bought the Book Its 80 or more pounds then theirs postal costs .How helpful that is I know not but might interest flask collectors .The very Best Flasks in modern times where those of Mick Marsh the best shot flasks Ken Steggles inc ' Allport Cappers' measures, & ,bore gauges ,But some excellent double shutter flasks where produced in India much as they are derided ( some fail re the body ) but the tops where excellent
Regards Rudyard

 

[Winterhawk]

Get some .530 round balls, a pre-lubed .015 patch (or .018 ticking, doesn't matter) and charge with 60 grains (volume measure, not weight) of 3F powder. I have never had a .54, and I have a few, that doesn't shoot accurately with that load....

I am confused (happens easily enough): You have never had a .54 but you do have a few? Are the "few" perhaps m/l rifles in a different caliber? In regard to .54 rifles I mostly agree with you although I would bump the charge up to 75 grains. Definitely use a volume measure
~Kees~

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I am confused (happens easily enough): You have never had a .54 but you do have a few? Are the "few" perhaps m/l rifles in a different caliber? In regard to .54 rifles I mostly agree with you although I would bump the charge up to 75 grains. Definitely use a volume measure
~Kees~

He means he has a few, but has never had one that didn't shoot accurately with that load combo.

I'll likely start low to get the hang of things, and then bump it up a little for a hunting load.
I am of the opinion that it doesn't take a super heavy load to kill deer. And like has already been said, this short barrel isn't going to get much benefit from super heavy charges.

 

[coupe]

There is a point of diminishing returns with barrel and loads, get the most accuracy out of an effective load, then makes no sense burning extra powder with low if any benefit at all.

 

[kyron4]

If your going to be flippant with those kinds of petty (spl?) while asking serious,, what you'll most likely get is flippant.
Sorry, the archives are here, your asking nothing newer than being new.
Understood.
Do you want the answer(?) or knowledge(?)

Was that necessary ? The guy hasn't been here a month and ask legit question and he gets this ? How many more new members are you going to run off before you're happy ? Arkansas Paul removed his" knee jerk response", I did not.

 

[Bad Karma]

Hawksley's On Rockingham Street where bought out By Dixons' Cornish place' Neepsend, both Sheffield makers all sizes and grades but the double shutter Flash proof are he best sort .Dixon only stopped trading in the 70s.maybe early 80s at Cornish place & lastly Heeley as I was a regular customer . But they did make powder flasks from their original Dies encouraged by a Mr Bennet a Manchester' Textile merchant , including the Colt Eagle and other styles .A new book on UK flasks and related accoutrements' is finally printed, I get a mention as I lived in Sheffield and was able to loan Dixons old records. But I havn,t bought the Book Its 80 or more pounds then theirs postal costs .How helpful that is I know not but might interest flask collectors .The very Best Flasks in modern times where those of Mick Marsh the best shot flasks Ken Steggles inc ' Allport Cappers' measures, & ,bore gauges ,But some excellent double shutter flasks where produced in India much as they are derided ( some fail re the body ) but the tops where excellent
Regards Rudyard

Thank you for the information. Would you know who the publisher is, or the title of this book?
When my first Hawksley arrived my first thought was, “I want to throw rocks at my cheap powder flasks.” My second thought was, “This could become an expensive habit.”

 

[reddogge]

I was very scientific in developing my hunting load for my .50 flintlock. I had two deer antler powder measures on my bag, a 50 gr for the .50 target load and a 30 gr for my .32 target load. I used one of each for an 80 gr hunting load in the .50 and viola, it worked.

 

[sethwyo]

It's a good thing you asked,
Your question wasn't silly at all,

A field supervisor once told me I was always asking too many stupid questions, he did this right in front of a company man , and I told him "well granddad said it's better to ask stupid questions then have other people deal with stupid problems that shouldn't have happened,

(Not referring to you or anything in this post is stupid just relating a personal story of my own)

Went to visit a friend here in town, couple years ago he loaded up about a thousand 9x19 rounds for me,
he's been loading up a bunch of 40 Auto,
after he got around 800 of them done, he realized he was going through the powder a heap faster than he should have been.

He realized that the newfangled fancy know-it-all computer meter that he's using was majoring in grams not in grains.

Problem

 

[necchi]

Was that necessary ?

My intention is to help the Original poster to find that there is learning.
He received answer.
Finding the answer to a basic question, repeated, isn't learning.
And with our personal shares @kyron4 since your membership, I'm surprised you jump on the bandwagon too