Safe Black Powder Storage?

[smoothshooter]

I pondered that question myself years back, so I thought I'd ask the experts.
Went down to the local Fire house and spoke with the Chief.
(Big City 6 station type FireChief)

His answer suprised me, he said;
"We don't care." :shocked2:

Well, I said I keep the stuff in a G.I. Ammo box on the floor in a closet, he said;
"That's a good place and ya can't beat Ole`Reliable can ya,,"

See the stuff needs to get mighty damn hot to ignite without a flame, and flame needs oxygen,, and heat rises.

So it's a good condition/seal intact metal .50cal GI ammo box for me, they actually pack in there real nice.

Your Fire Department Chief is wrong.

Black powder in an ammo can is potentially more dangerous in a fire than cartridge ammo is.
Please do some more research!

 

[necchi]

Ok, I will seriously consider your statements and opinion as opposed to the large city lifetime career FD employee that I've known since my childhood
grade-school day's.
After all we're both nearing retirement, and those 45yrs he's put into the job may have tainted his knowledge and experience.

 

[springfield art]

Just wondering where you all keep your black powder? (not talking what's in your horns) I used to keep mine in the gun safe but I'm running out of room. Not to keen on just leaving it sitting on a shelf in my basement workshop. Maybe in Ammo boxes?

I have mine in an old zinc 'safe box' in the shed away from the house, labelled as to contents and locked. Good idea is to find a suitable size lockable chest or somesuch and store where it's safe and secure. I think the gov't. requires retailers to have a lockable chest of some sort. You could check the ATF requirements, but most guys don't have too many cans at once. The recent 'shortage' probably had many guys with several cans due to the drought.

 

[springfield art]

Your Fire Department Chief is wrong.

Black powder in an ammo can is potentially more dangerous in a fire than cartridge ammo is.
Please do some more research!

You are correct. BP is an explosive, modern ammo will just pop and flare up, but BP will actually, well, explode! Good point you've made.

 

[springfield art]

You are correct. BP is an explosive, modern ammo will just pop and flare up, but BP will actually, well, explode! Good point you've made.

As much as I respect fire personnel, they're not all that up on BP storage or knowledge.

 

[necchi]

they're not all that up on BP storage or knowledge.

The Mad Monk, William A Knight, does have the knowledge.
I've provided those links also, so the actual truth is available for those that want to find it.
I've grown weary of this thread and will bow out.
"You can lead a horse to water,,"

 

[smoothshooter]

Interior wall closet top shelf (spare bedroom) in the original shipping containers.

Have about 40 lbs in there now.

Exterior wall is better for powder. Same for gun safes.
The hottest part of most bad house fires are in the middle part.

 

[smoothshooter]

it sits right next to my other shooting supplies. black powder is not even close to as dangerous as people would make it out to be. when kept in a airtight container it will not hurt much unless yer place burns down... but even then BP is not really an explosive its highly flammable and will burn super hot for a very short period of time.

i like to compare black powder to gasoline (not an exact comparison of course). both can cause an explosion under the right conditions but in most cases they just burn hot and fast.

(theory) if any thing the plastic containers they come in now days are probably safer then the old metal ones. in a metal container the heat would build up untell the powder ignites inside and with no where to go it would cause the container to expode. the plastic on the other hand would melt quickly exposing the powder to the flames which would ignite and burn rather than explode.

-matt

Agreed.
Many people break out in a cold sweat worrying about a few pounds of BP original containers in a cardboard box in their garage.
A 5 gallon jug of gasoline for the lawnmower in the garage is potentially more dangerous.
Do not store powder in strong containers, especially metal ones, especially military ammo cans.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I took all the metal handles and stuff off a wooden box in the shed and use that. Works fine. Lid closes but no latch.

 

[deerstalkert]

As much as I respect fire personnel, they're not all that up on BP storage or knowledge.

 

[wojciste]

I stored my BP for years (25) in my outside shed, in an ammo can. The shed in the summer would get to over 100 degrees. Never had an issue. Now they are stored in an ammo can in a cool basement next to my modern ammo.

 

[SOLANCO]

My home was built around 1950 complete with a fallout shelter that is 5 steps down from the basement and out under the lawn. My BP and my wine live there. Both in their original containers.

 

[smoothshooter]

I stored my BP for years (25) in my outside shed, in an ammo can. The shed in the summer would get to over 100 degrees. Never had an issue. Now they are stored in an ammo can in a cool basement next to my modern ammo.

Bad idea.

 

[Whitworth]

I keep mine in a large GI metal ammo can in the detached garage. I just push the lid on and don't latch it down. Stored gasoline is a greater worry IMHO.

 

[smoothshooter]

No, not specifically.
Tell ya what, You wanna know about Black Powder?
First, brush up a bit on your chemistry, then study the offerings found on-line by William A Knight, Bill Knight, aka; The Mad Monk.
He is a Global Expert that shares our passion.
Once you have read all of these; not just scanned, but read and understood.
https://archive.org/details/mad_monk_bp_files/mad monk files complete/Part_1/
Then search for what happens when sulfur is heated. Not "ignited",, heated,,
There is a full explanation of the phenomena by Bill Knight in the archives of the ALR forum.
(that I'm not going to dig for)
Basically the heated sulfur changes,, that change turns black powder from BOOM to poof,,
Air tight = lack of flame, no ignition source.
Heated/sealed steel container = Oven. (not a blast furnace).

A snug fitting box made of 2x4's as already described is another excellent method. The box limits available air so the interior doesn't allow flame, while the thickness of the wood slows the heat exchange.

Basically all the concern of storing black powder and it's "explosion" in a fire is unfounded,, myth. Tragic Fires occur nation wide daily,,
Funny thing is, we never hear about the results of BP explosions causing issue, that's the fact.

So I've offered you the opportunity to educate yourself, I hope you take advantage of it.

We don’t hear about BP and fires because so few people have it or even know what it is.
There was a news report about 18 months ago in my general area about an explosion in someone’s house that blew part of the back wall off and injured a man and his wife. Report was brief, and said the owner was “ making ammunition “, and something about a fire, or words to that effect.
Based on the reported damage, it did not sound like smokeless to me.
I got the impression the reporter knew nothing about powder or firearms.
Never heard any more mention of it. Unknown whether the fire caused the explosion or the explosion caused the fire.

 

[user 48702]

A 10yr old thread? I have always said that the archives have valuable information.
"ammo can's" are designed to express pressure under extreme heat.
The hinge and closing action have a solder that will "loosen" when extreme heat is present,
,that, and having some knowledge of BP and nitro powder composition's reaction during rapid heat expansion/acceleration with-out an ignition source,, might help you understand why Nation's across the globe have actually used "ammo can's" to store ammunition and explosives for over 100yrs.
Air Tight, Water tight, with a built-in pressure relief system,,
With the endorsement of professionals,, behold the reality;

Thanks for the video.
While assigned as a Criminal Investigator (CID Agent) at MCB Camp Lejeune, NC in the early 1980s, I had a case where two Marines were injured at a training range in the Verona Loop area of the base. A brush fire started at one of the ranges and junior troops were ordered to extinguish the fire as best as they could. About all they had to fight the fire with was a few shovels and most were just flailing the ground with shelter halves. I received a call that two of those Marines were injured and had been transported to the Naval Hospital with wounds. The MPs referred the incident to our office since it was reported that the injured had suffered bullet wounds from unspent cartridges in the fire. Upon arrival, it was determined that projectiles from unspent cartridges had wounded the two Marines, one received a 5.56 round just above the wrist, lodged between the ulnar and radius, the other Marine had a round lodged against a rib on his flank. ER Doc stated that if the rib hadn't stopped the round, it would have more than likely caused internal damage, liver, kidney, etc. I went out to the range where the incident occurred and found quite a few unfired cartridges that had detonated in the brush fire. Here is a photo of one that was recovered from the range.

 

[Whitworth]

That's impressive, says a lot about the brass to deform like that and not split.