RIFLE TWISTS

[roundball]

:thumbsup:

And what's so terrific about poster swamman's negative remarks about 1:48" & RB's is that it brings everybody else out in unison refuting it with their actual hands on experience, showing up the negative attacks for what they are...so let's hope swamman keeps posting those negative comments...this has turned out to be the best pro-1:48"/PRB advertising campaign that anybody could have imagined!!

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Slake]

to jump in the fray here how would ya tell unless otherwise marked? I have one cheapy 50 cal that has brought home venison that is 1 48 without goin to look at it I think it's a Traditions and is costs me $50 {used}. If you want me to put a round ball somewhere point it out and I'll put it there and right quick until ya get past 100 yards and then it might take me a few tries {I'm getting old and don't see so well} that rifle shoots fine

 

[Swampman]

My actual hands on experience, and that of everyone I've ever known that owned a 1:48 twist barrel gave groups about the size of a softball on a good day at 50 yards. That will kill a deer. Since it would have cost the same to put a proper twist in these cheap guns, I don't see why they didn't. I guess that was so they could sell after market barrels to those seeking good accuracy.

 

[faw3]

I belive John H answered this one best.and leave it at that thank you. Fred :thumbsup:

 

[AZ-Robert]

I depends on the caliber... It all has to do with mass....

Give that man a cigar! And add the bullet length-to-width ratio into the list of things that matter. For the real nitty gritty, check Bob Spencer's simplified version of the venerable Greenhill formula (used to determine optimum twist for a given bullet) at the bottom of this page:
[url] http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/math.html[/url]

The punch line is the last two words...."or shorter."

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Green Mountain's twist rates are; 48" for .32 & .40 cal, 60" for .45 and 70" for .50 and up.
You know Roundball, I get just a little tired of your laying that "old wives tale" and "lack experience" on anyone who disagrees with you. I've personally owned T/C Hawkens, Renegades, and a couple of Lyman Trade Rifles. I worked diligently and systematical to find a good load and after much frustration I either sold them or rebarreled them. Since you've never shot anything but T/C,s perhaps it is YOUR experience that is questionable.

 

[flaming canvas]

I guess T/C doesn't know what they are talking about and lack experience. They designed the 1:48 Maxiball barrel, and everyone else copied them unfortunately for traditional shooters.

1:48 was good enough for the Hawken brothers. I don't know how you can get much more traditional than them.

 

[jimeckersley]

If you want to shoot round balls, a 1:66 is the correct twist. 1:48 and faster is specifically for conicals.

That's interesting... Most of the original Hawkens were made with a 1 - 48 twist. maybe nobody told the folks at the Hawken shop in St Louis that a 1 - 48 wouldn't work for round ball barrels.

 

[Halftail]

Neither, It's not drilled for smoking and it's too expensive to throw. These cheap fast twist barrels can be made into handy stuff. :rotf:

Well which is it?Too expensive or Cheap?Make up your mind Sarge.

 

[Swampman]

In original Hawkens, the used huge powder charges, and the rifling wasn't just shallow scratches.

 

[Keppy]

Swampman said:
I suppose the fact that a smoothbore can shoot as accurately as any twist gives some room for ponderment. My old trade gun beat 38 rifle shooters once upon a time.

Now we have a fact and once upon a time. I like a fariy tale story.
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Trot]

The Hawkens used huge powder charges, that would be another myth shot down, you have to use light powder charges in 1 in 48" twist. They also had deep cut rifling, I thought the twist rate is what is in question here not rifling depth, I doubt a slow twist barrel would shoot well with scratches for rifling.

 

[roundball]

Green Mountain's twist rates are; 48" for .32 & .40 cal, 60" for .45 and 70" for .50 and up.
You know Roundball, I get just a little tired of your laying that "old wives tale" and "lack experience" on anyone who disagrees with you. I've personally owned T/C Hawkens, Renegades, and a couple of Lyman Trade Rifles. I worked diligently and systematical to find a good load and after much frustration I either sold them or rebarreled them. Since you've never shot anything but T/C,s perhaps it is YOUR experience that is questionable.

To be clear, I'm not the one LEADING with information...I, along with virtually everyone else who responded, am clarifying the blanket misinformation that 1:48's can't shoot RB's acurately.

I'm sorry you had trouble getting yours to work...mine have worked fine...as they apparently have for the vast majority of other posters based upon all their responses.

In addition, I suggest and urge you to put me on your 'ignore' list immediately so you won't have to worry about my posts in the future.

:v

 

[montanadan]

I generally do not get involved in these debates,but I would like to thank roundball for all his posts.I have Two shallow rifled 1:48 twist,and they both shoot excellent.I went back re-read alot of rounball's posts,and you know what? It works...Now if I could only see better..Respectfully Montanadan

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

To make things even more confusing...

I once owned a 1:32 twist .50 cal gun that could shoot a single ragged 2" hole at 50yds (bench rested) with roundball--providing that I didn't use more than about 70gr FFFg. While that's NOT the best roundball shooting, I'm sure it's not the only "fast twist" .50 that ever shot that good either. I may have just gotten the right combination of components together.

Muzzleloading has always proven to me that there are NO hard fast rules... I guess that's one of the reasons I like it so much... it's reliably unpredictable!

Shoot Safely!
WV_Hillbilly

 

[Forster]

I have owned six side locks through the years, four were 1-48 two were 1-66 and have always shot paper. I never noticed a difference in accuracy between rates of twist. I am the weak link in the chain of accuracy. I have never been able to shoot to a guns full potential...Jim

 

[jimeckersley]

In original Hawkens, the used huge powder charges, and the rifling wasn't just shallow scratches.

Oh, I see now. So there are a few exceptions to the 1-66 rule based upon type, depth and width of rifling, powder charges, ball, patch and lube combination and a few other factors.

Would a huge powder charge be somewhere between 50 to 150 grains, like most of the Hawken owners used, depending upon what they were hunting?

 

For anyone who really cares, there is a formula for determining twist. For .45 the 1 in 48 fits, for .50 it starts to become borderline, as it also does for .40. the 1 in 66 or 70 works well for .54, and .58, but is too fast for larger calibers, some of which require something like 1 in 100 twist. The smaller calibers like .32, and 36 will do better with something like 1 in 30 twist. Of course smoothe bores require zero in 48 twist :rotf: I think there was a discussion about a year ago that had the formula. Bottom line though is to work up a ball, patch, lube, powder combination that works in your gun. Bill

 

[jimeckersley]

You may mean the Greenhill Formula. Another close estimate can be reached by multiplying the round ball diameter in inches times 1.25. Example:
40 x 1.25 = 50.0
50 x 1.25 = 62.5
62 x 1.25 = 77.5

Tha Greenhill formula asks that you give both diameter and length and there's a factor for velocity. Do a Google search and you can come up with a calculator.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Actually did that a long time ago because I've been around long enough to know BS when I smell it. Seeing is believing and in my fifty plus years of building, shooting, and competing with muzzleloaders I have yet to see anyone with a T/C actually produce the kind of targets you claim to get from each and every T/C you own. Anyone can obtain great accuracy with any gun-- on a keyboard.
That is why we'll never get along Roundball, I know you're full of it and you know I know it!