Rev War period Carolina guns

[tg]

The topic of specific gun types is interesting and obviously not as well understood as some might think, does anyone have any photos of any Carolina guns from the Rev war period give or take? here is one that I had a few years back. Please share

The tallow hole was my addition I could not find anything to proove that they were not used on a gun from that era so I added one as I like them, same for the steel/iron furniture.

 

[nchawkeye]

I do, I built it back in the 80s after much research from advice from Bob Hunt, John Braxton and John Bivins...

Not really sure I'd like to share it with this audience though.... :idunno:

 

[jdkerstetter]

TG, Are you asking for pictures of originals?

The only pictures of an original are available here: http://www.flintriflesmith.com/Antiques/bumford_tradegun.htm

Jack Brooks did an excellent copy of this gun as it is believed have looked like when in use. If you "google" "Type G trade gun jack brooks" it will be the first link.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Keb]

I do, I built it back in the 80s after much research from advice from Bob Hunt, John Braxton and John Bivins...

Not really sure I'd like to share it with this audience though.... :idunno:

Ya. I debated a while before making this post.
This gun was built in 1969 and is someone's interpretation of a gun built in pre-rev war S. Carolina.
Top barrel flat is marked John Dodd Charles Towne 1769.
It's maple wood, 48" double tapered octagon .65 caliber smooth bored.

 

[illuveatar]

How common were the "vine painted" stocks ? any idea what type of dying agents builders might have used to do that ?

Was Jack Brooks just taking a guess on that rear sight or is that a common style for the era ?

 

[illuveatar]

How common were the "vine painted" stocks ? any idea what type of dying agents builders might have used to do that ?

Was Jack Brooks just taking a guess on that rear sight or is that a common style for the era ?

 

[jdkerstetter]

TG, Excuse me but what guns are you referring to here? Carolina Guns as in the Type "G" Trade Gun or guns built in Carolina by colonist around the time of the revolution?

Thanks, J.D.

How common were the "vine painted" stocks ? any idea what type of dying agents builders might have used to do that ?

Don't know if that question can be answered. I haven't dumped a ton of time into researching Trade Guns but from what I understand complete Trade Guns of any of the types are extremely rare.

Most of the what is known about them is based on very few surviving examples and allot of archaelogical artifacts.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[jdkerstetter]

TG, Excuse me but what guns are you referring to here? Carolina Guns as in the Type "G" Trade Gun or guns built in Carolina by colonist around the time of the revolution?

Thanks, J.D.

How common were the "vine painted" stocks ? any idea what type of dying agents builders might have used to do that ?

Don't know if that question can be answered. I haven't dumped a ton of time into researching Trade Guns but from what I understand complete Trade Guns of any of the types are extremely rare.

Most of the what is known about them is based on very few surviving examples and allot of archaelogical artifacts.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[rich pierce]

I think we're talking about both "type G or Carolina guns" which were cheap light smoothbores and rifles made in the Carolinas and it's confusing as they have little relationship to each other, one being a cheap light imported smoothbore and another being a colonial built rifle. If we are talking about rifles built in the Carolinas before the Revolutionary War, there's one attributed because it was collected there, and the other potential candidates are unsigned, undated and therefore even more speculative.

As far as iron mounted pre-Revolutionary War to Revolutionary War rifles are concerned, there is the Old Holston rifle, attributed to the valley of Virginia, walnut stocked and with a sliding wooden patchbox, and the Tileston rifle which emerged maybe 10 years ago. I'm not up to speed on the latest thinking about the Tileston rifle but it's a dated Revolutionary War period rife with sophisticated high quality iron mounts.

I am not sure when the grease or tallow hole appeared on Appalachain rifles, but I seem to recall a Steve Davis rifle of early styling with one and it looked like it fit.

 

[rich pierce]

I think we're talking about both "type G or Carolina guns" which were cheap light smoothbores and rifles made in the Carolinas and it's confusing as they have little relationship to each other, one being a cheap light imported smoothbore and another being a colonial built rifle. If we are talking about rifles built in the Carolinas before the Revolutionary War, there's one attributed because it was collected there, and the other potential candidates are unsigned, undated and therefore even more speculative.

As far as iron mounted pre-Revolutionary War to Revolutionary War rifles are concerned, there is the Old Holston rifle, attributed to the valley of Virginia, walnut stocked and with a sliding wooden patchbox, and the Tileston rifle which emerged maybe 10 years ago. I'm not up to speed on the latest thinking about the Tileston rifle but it's a dated Revolutionary War period rife with sophisticated high quality iron mounts.

I am not sure when the grease or tallow hole appeared on Appalachain rifles, but I seem to recall a Steve Davis rifle of early styling with one and it looked like it fit.

 

[rich pierce]

Vine painted, painted blue or yellow or red, all sorts of things. They were gussying up the cheapest possible gun to make it sell better and have the customer think it was special. Rear sights are found on a portion of Caroline guns (type G trade guns) and some think the sights were sometimes added here after importing.

 

[rich pierce]

Vine painted, painted blue or yellow or red, all sorts of things. They were gussying up the cheapest possible gun to make it sell better and have the customer think it was special. Rear sights are found on a portion of Caroline guns (type G trade guns) and some think the sights were sometimes added here after importing.

 

[Keb]

OP said:

does anyone have any photos of any Carolina guns from the Rev war period give or take?

It doesn't state style, maker or vine painted guns, just Carolina guns Rev-War +/- period.

 

[Keb]

OP said:

does anyone have any photos of any Carolina guns from the Rev war period give or take?

It doesn't state style, maker or vine painted guns, just Carolina guns Rev-War +/- period.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Tha't why I asked. Carolina guns can refer to guns made in Carolina or the Type "G" Trade Guns which were made in England, pieces of which have been found from as far South as Mississippi to as far North as New York and Michigan and really.

Funny how most of the archaeolical remnents of these pieces have been found in Mississippi yet somebody decided to brand them with the moniker "Carolina"....guess that's where the "remaining" records indicate they were delivered to the Colonies....or the brander was from.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Tha't why I asked. Carolina guns can refer to guns made in Carolina or the Type "G" Trade Guns which were made in England, pieces of which have been found from as far South as Mississippi to as far North as New York and Michigan and really.

Funny how most of the archaeolical remnents of these pieces have been found in Mississippi yet somebody decided to brand them with the moniker "Carolina"....guess that's where the "remaining" records indicate they were delivered to the Colonies....or the brander was from.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[rich pierce]

Period accounts refer to the least expensive English trade guns of the period as Carolina guns.

 

[rich pierce]

Period accounts refer to the least expensive English trade guns of the period as Carolina guns.

 

[tg]

I should have been more specific, I appologize. I was looking for current "replica" or interpretations, not particularly exact copies of a particular gun, but that is good as well of Carlolina built rifles/smoothbores this comparitive exchange seems to start a fire at times but there is no reason we cannot discuss the rights and wrongs of the current offerings and also the comparison of these with known originals in an attempt to learn, also the estimated dates would be god as this is often a large part of the essence and validity of a "remake" in todays market, my gun was a smothrifle and was supposed to be dated to the rev war which I doubted very much with the iron furniture and some held in hand viewable traits that suggested to me 1800 or there abouts. it did have a very wide buttplate and early lock but other things just seemed later, I think this is pretty common, BTW I am critiqing my own gun so no one should get to upset. Comparing todays offerings with originals is the only way I know of to learn about the history of one and the accuracy in construction/terminology of the other unless I am missing something.

As for iron mounts I recall a gun made by Haines which had a complete set of Euro furniture it was probably brass but given the wide use of iron in Europe import could explain well made iron furniture found on colonial made guns much like the barrels and locks, just a thought, the more crude flat iron hammered/forged iron furniture such as the omne in RCA with a trianular patch box part woulld more likley be domestic in origin I would think.

 

[tg]

I should have been more specific, I appologize. I was looking for current "replica" or interpretations, not particularly exact copies of a particular gun, but that is good as well of Carlolina built rifles/smoothbores this comparitive exchange seems to start a fire at times but there is no reason we cannot discuss the rights and wrongs of the current offerings and also the comparison of these with known originals in an attempt to learn, also the estimated dates would be god as this is often a large part of the essence and validity of a "remake" in todays market, my gun was a smothrifle and was supposed to be dated to the rev war which I doubted very much with the iron furniture and some held in hand viewable traits that suggested to me 1800 or there abouts. it did have a very wide buttplate and early lock but other things just seemed later, I think this is pretty common, BTW I am critiqing my own gun so no one should get to upset. Comparing todays offerings with originals is the only way I know of to learn about the history of one and the accuracy in construction/terminology of the other unless I am missing something.

As for iron mounts I recall a gun made by Haines which had a complete set of Euro furniture it was probably brass but given the wide use of iron in Europe import could explain well made iron furniture found on colonial made guns much like the barrels and locks, just a thought, the more crude flat iron hammered/forged iron furniture such as the omne in RCA with a trianular patch box part woulld more likley be domestic in origin I would think.