(results!!)Round ball accuracy out of a jug choked smoothbore

[CoyoteJoe]

Some people seem to be missing the point here. GMB is not saying it was the jug choke which was responsible for his accuracy, rather he just found the magic load and the jug choke did no harm.
Looking over the thread entitled "real world smoothbore accuracy" it seems clear that some smoothbores just naturally shoot well and some just never do better than 6" at 50 yards no mater what one may try. When the Bevel Brothers interviewed a renowned smoothbore shooter his advise was something like "try every possible combination regardless of whether or not it makes any sense and after a year of hard work if you still aren't satisfied, just sell that gun and start over with another". :haha:

 

[Skychief]

GreenMountainBoy....does your gun have a rear sight on it? If you made mention of it already, I apologize for overlooking it! :redface:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Jug choke is a form of choke that involves taking metal off the inside of the barrel, beginning about 5-8 inches behind the muzzle. An expansion chamber is cut in the barrel, with an incline going into the chamber, and a longer incline coming out of it, ending about 1/2-1" behind the muzzle. Its this "exit " incline that acts as the " choke". Its called a " jug " choke because of the expansion chamber's similar appearance to a bottle, or " Jug".

There is a man in Iowa -Lloyd Tennison-- I believe is the name--- who does this, as does our own Coyote Joe. I am sure there are other smiths who do this kind of choke for ML smoothbore barrels, but I can't think of any other names off hand.

The Jug choke's ability to constrict shot patterns is measured the same way we measure modern chokes. Its spoken of in "Points of constriction" and each "Pt." is .001". 40 points is usually thought of as being required to make a full choke in a 12 gauge smoothbore. That means that the barrel is constricted .020" around the circumference by the choke. ( In smaller gauges, less constriction will produce full choke patterns. It varies by gauge.)

With a jug choke, the same Full choke will require .020" of relief in the expansion chamber around the circumference of the barrel.

Not all OLD shotgun barrels have enough metal in their walls to allow this much metal to be removed, safely. But, Fowlers, and Smoothbores with half octagon, half round barrels generally have enough metal thickness on the barrel today, to allow a jug choke to be made, at least to some sizing of choke.

Choke does not give the same effect using Black powder as modern smokeless powder does in choked shotgun barrels. You won't get the velocities with Black Powder( or the substitutes) that you can achieve with modern smokeless powders in modern casings. To get the same down-range pellet energy, using BP loads, you generally have to increase the size of the pellet used, by at least one number, and sometimes 2. Even at that, you are not going to get good patterns out at 60 yds, and beyond, where some modern guns can get reasonable patterns at those distances.

I hope this helps you understand what we are all talking about. :thumbsup:

 

[DrLaw]

It sure does.

Thanks, (again) :thumbsup:

The Doc is out now. :v

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Do you cut your patches at the barrel? or use pre cut patches.
Maby your patches arn't big enough if you are using pre cut.
I always cut my patches at the bore with both rifled and smooth barrels for a "perfect" fit.
:thumbsup:

I am using the pre cut patches, .60-.69 wonder lubed. There's plenty of room on the 20 gauge but tight enough on the 12 gauge. I also have to use the 12 bore jag when running down cards as they can go vertical when passing through the jug choke if I use anything smaller.

Don't stress about your cards going vert, my do as well but flatten out about half way down the barrel.
Try cutting your patches at the barrel, I bet you won't have any problems after that.
:thumbsup:

 

[Greenmtnboy]

GreenMountainBoy....does your gun have a rear sight on it? If you made mention of it already, I apologize for overlooking it! :redface:

yes it does.

 

[alrany187]

P.T.
CoyoteJoe, not only are his prices very reasonable but he also patterns your smoothbore afterward.
:thumbsup:

Just got back from the post office where I sent my barrel off to Coyote Joe. REALLY looking forward to seeing how this baby patterns now.

 

[TomK]

Coyote:

Plan on taking my Wilson home this weekend after Como. It's ready for the Coyote Jug.

TK

 

[alrany187]

Coyote:

Plan on taking my Wilson home this weekend after Como. It's ready for the Coyote Jug.

TK

I have a 36" Wilson also. Was going to have Danny do the jug choke, but in these times, savings is savings.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Coyote:

Plan on taking my Wilson home this weekend after Como. It's ready for the Coyote Jug.

TK

Rio!! Haven't seen you on here in a while! You just lurk around and keep quiet I guess. Well, that does save one's catching a lot of flack doesn't it.
:haha:

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Coyote:

Plan on taking my Wilson home this weekend after Como. It's ready for the Coyote Jug.

TK

Rio!! Haven't seen you on here in a while! You just lurk around and keep quiet I guess. Well, that does save one's catching a lot of flack doesn't it.
:haha:

sneeking,SNEEKING!!,the fat hobbit is always accusing me of sneeking.
:grin:

yotie,Rio,
see ya at Como, lets go out and do some sneeking.

 

[Birddog6]

The thing I noticed that created accuracy as well as losing the overpowder wad is decreasing my powder charge to 60 grns and using a all lead ball.

An all lead ball ? What kind of ball were you shooting previously ?

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Read "pure lead", vs hard alloy.

 

[Birddog6]

Oh... I never consider shooting anything but pure lead out of ML's, that is why I asked... But the way lead is going, we will all be shooting alloy some day.... :hmm:

I would love to have a smoothbore that would group like his does at 50 yards.
:thumbsup:

 

[rabjr]

Oh... I never consider shooting anything but pure lead out of ML's, that is why I asked... But the way lead is going, we will all be shooting alloy some day.... :hmm:

I would love to have a smoothbore that would group like his does at 50 yards.
:thumbsup:

Mine does at 50, its beyond that my groups grow a bit larger.

 

[PreglerD]

May somebody explain the term "jug choked" please!


Regards

Kirrmeister

 

[The Baron]

That's not very good accuracy at all. :hmm: I hate to see a fellow flint shooter suffer with such a frustrating situation, so just send that gun my way and you'll never have to cry over not making a one hole group at 50 yards again. :wink:

Seriously, very impressive. I'm #1 a turkey hunter myself but I do stumble around the deer woods now and then. That is one sweet fowler you've got now, for such uses! :thumbsup:


Kirrmeister... see Paul's explaination about 12 posts back on this page. :v

 

[PreglerD]

Find it!

Thank you!

Regards

Kirrmeister

 

[roundball]

Find it!

Thank you!

Regards

Kirrmeister

It's an expansion chamber honed into the inside of the bore...works on the same principle as a modern trap shotgun that's been 'backbored'...google up backbore, backbored, backboring, etc

 

[dbutch]

GMB-Glad you found the sweet spot load for your smooth bore. This morning I tried my 62 cal. smooth bore GM 33 inch percussion barrel. the best I could get was 4 inch group at 35 yards.
Using a .600 roundball,.018 pillow ticking, 60-65-70-75 gr fff Grafs bp, the 4 different patch lubes, olive oil, mink oil, Hoppes blackpowder solvent and lube, wonder lube 1000.all patches were prelubed the night before.not one of the lubes stood out any better.
This is a Lowell Tennison Jug choked .030 full. This ball patch combo loaded hard, I cut the patches at the muzzle.The patches looked great after firing. So it looks like this barrel using rb's will be used out to 35 yards max.This will be a close quarters set up only. The choked barrel throws a great pattern of 6's lead so I will be using it for small game(turkey). Black powder shooting is just FUN.