Queen Anne pistol

Discussion in 'The Gun Builder's Bench' started by Jeff Kaufmann, Jun 5, 2019.

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum by donating:

  1. Jun 5, 2019 #1

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    36 Cl. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    La Crescent, MN
    Hi all, back in the middle of January I ordered a set of castings from E.J. Blackley and son of their Queen Anne pistol kit. Well the parts are finally completed and in the mail! I received a photo of my castings from Kevin at E.J. Blackley today via email that I thought that I would share. I am officially excited to get started now!

    IMG_20190604_142818_2.jpg
    So I thought that I would start a thread and try to update it as I progress through the build. Firstly dealing with Kevin and the folks at E.J. Blackley has been great, Kevin has always been available for communication and has kept me updated on the progress throughout. It took a bit longer than expected, but I had figured that it would take a while and I would say that my wait was reasonable all things considered. And as I said above, Kevin kept me up to date on the progress which was a great help in maintaining patience.
     
    Nyckname and Shot deer like this.
  2. Jun 5, 2019 #2

    dave_person

    dave_person

    dave_person

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,317
    Likes Received:
    273
    Hi Jeff,
    Do you know anything about these pistols? I suggest you buy John Burgoyne's "The Queen Anne Pistol" so you understand the technology and art form. Also Norman Dixon's " Georgian Pistols" has a lot of good information. There are quite a few of these pistols in American museums, which I urge you to investigate. Also, you might consider learning to do some silver wire inlay.
    dave
     
    Jeff Kaufmann likes this.
  3. Jun 5, 2019 #3

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    36 Cl. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    La Crescent, MN
    Thanks for the references Dave. I did a bunch of research prior to deciding on what I wanted to build. I had looked into a few different types of pistol and landed on the Queen Anne style. Since then I have been studying every photo I can find and have researched them pretty thoroughly. I have yet to purchase a copy of Jon Burgoynes' book, but it is on my list to aquire. I have read a few pieces here and there that I have found available online, but really would like to own a copy of my own. I have not seen anything from Norman Dixon's book however and will have to look up a copy of that as well. Thank you again for the references!
     
  4. Jun 5, 2019 #4

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    36 Cl. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    La Crescent, MN
    Also I had forgotten to mention that I come from a family of jewelers, my father was a watchmaker, my grandfather was a clock maker and jeweler, and my grandmother did all of the engraving. She did everything from rings and watch cases to gun engraving. I used to work as an electronic repair technician performing micro soldering and surface mount repairs to cell phones and such. So I do have a pretty steady hand and a thorough grasp of detail oriented work.
     
  5. Jun 5, 2019 #5

    dave_person

    dave_person

    dave_person

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,317
    Likes Received:
    273
    Hi Jeff,
    They are great pistols and often during the early 18th century were decorated with wire and silver inlay. I've handled a number of originals and they are well balanced and function beautifully. I believe Kevin's castings should be very good. I've built several locks from his part sets and the quality of the parts was first rate. If you decide to try silver wire inlay, use very thin sheet or ribbon, no more than 0.005" thick. Rio Grande (www.riogrande.com) sells cloisonne strip that suits but you could even go thinner. The few contemporary made turn-off pistols I've seen with wire inlay used wire that was too thick and it did not look like the originals.

    dave
     
    Jeff Kaufmann likes this.
  6. Jun 5, 2019 #6

    jdw276

    jdw276

    jdw276

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    34
    This is and should be a fun thread and topic to follow! Good luck....
     
    Shot deer and Jeff Kaufmann like this.
  7. Jun 5, 2019 #7

    TFoley

    TFoley

    TFoley

    62 Cal.

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,199
    Likes Received:
    113
    I'm holding MY Blackley Queen Anne pistol and thinking how hard it was to turn that lump of wood into a grip......but thirty-something years later, the pain seems to have diminished somewhat!
     
    Jeff Kaufmann likes this.
  8. Jun 5, 2019 #8

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    36 Cl. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    La Crescent, MN
    That has been the thing I have been viewing and reviewing time and again. It seems like such a simple shape, but really it is a fairly complex curve in multiple directions. Too bulbous and it loses the sleek lines of the pistol, too thin and it just looks wrong.

    I hate to mention it as I have seen many people mention how nice a guy Tiger is and I would hate to detract from their business, but I have been looking at pictures of a Queen Anne that Pirate Fashions built as an example of what not to do with the pistol. jqa2_1024x1024.jpg

    The pistol shown here is what I am talking about. The bottom of the grip is lacking that nicely rounded bulbous shape and I think it throws off the look of the whole pistol.

    TFoley, would you happen to have any photos of your pistol that you would mind sharing? I would love to see them if you don't mind! I could use all of the reference material that I can lay my eyes on! Also would you say that the grip was the largest challenge?
     
  9. Jun 5, 2019 #9

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    36 Cl. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    La Crescent, MN
    I was thinking of doing something for silver wire inlay work and have sketched out a few ideas, I have not yet decided on how elaborate I want to go with it. And I likely won't know until I actually get the stock shaped and let the shape of the grip tell me what I should do. The wife was actually just saying that she had no idea what to get me for Father's day this year and I had mentioned that I would need some flat silver inlay wire and a few pieces of round wire for accent dots and such for the pistol kit. Thank you again for the resource link to Rio Grande, I had looked and found some on Amazon that looked to be proper .999 fine silver, but most of what popped up on a search was the cheap aluminum stuff.
     
  10. Jun 5, 2019 #10

    dave_person

    dave_person

    dave_person

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,317
    Likes Received:
    273
    Hi Jeff,
    Fine silver works very well and does not tarnish nearly as fast as sterling. I prefer it for just that reason. I've seen sterling wire work that turned almost black with tarnish. One of the advantages to the design is that the barrel tang is a separate piece screwed into the frame. That means you can focus on inletting the trigger plate tang and then inlet the barrel tang separately. It makes the task much easier. Also, most of these pistols were designed as pocket pistols and the handles were quite short often extending just sufficiently beyond the trigger plate tang to accommodate the butt cap. I particularly like pistols made by James Freeman. I think his handle design was the most elegant and functional.

    dave
     
  11. Jun 5, 2019 #11

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    36 Cl. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    La Crescent, MN
    The Freeman designs are very nice, most of the examples I have seen of his are a little thicker at the wrist it seems. 9752057_1.jpg

    The castings from Blackley are of an original by Gill. Which seems to me to be a bit longer and more slender in design. 1953351_1.jpg

    I think that both have their own visual charm, and I particularly like the darker stain on the pair of Gill pistols that I attached. I am however considering including the stock carving located at the rear of the frame of the Freeman examples.
     
  12. Jun 5, 2019 #12

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    36 Cl. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    La Crescent, MN
    Dave,
    What temper would you suggest for inlay work, dead soft, half hard? I would appreciate your input. Would it be best to shape dead soft and then harden it? Or do you find it unnecessary to harden? One of the great things about this forum is having access to the expertise of individuals such as yourself! If you haven't heard it recently, thank you, I always find your posts informative and helpful.
     
    Treestalker likes this.
  13. Jun 5, 2019 #13

    dave_person

    dave_person

    dave_person

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,317
    Likes Received:
    273
    Hi Jeff,
    Dead soft is best, particularly for scrolls. Also don't mix fine silver and sterling because the colors don't match, Fine silver is whiter. Half hard ribbon is good when doing straight borders but not so great for scrolls. In addition, wire inlay on the handle has to bend in 3 dimensions to wrap around the round shape. Dead soft is important. You can see why in the photos below.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    dave
     
    Nyckname, Shot deer and Jeff Kaufmann like this.
  14. Jun 5, 2019 #14

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    36 Cl. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    La Crescent, MN
    Beautiful work as always Dave! Thank you for sharing. On the Queen Anne the most common motif I seem to see starts with a spiral on the base of the handle. As much as I like the more ornate inlay work, I like the plain pistols as well. I will likely end up doing something simpler and more subdued. Perhaps just border the clamshell carving around the barrel tang and around the frame.
     
  15. Jun 6, 2019 #15

    dave_person

    dave_person

    dave_person

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,317
    Likes Received:
    273
    Hi Jeff,
    Certainly do what you are comfortable with. There are basically 3 kinds of rococo shells carved on British guns during 1740-1770. The classic symmetrical shell (1st photo), the shell rolling in from one side (second photo), and the folded shell (second photo).

    dave
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Nyckname, Jeff Kaufmann and Shot deer like this.
  16. Jun 14, 2019 #16

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    36 Cl. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    La Crescent, MN
    Parts arrived yesterday! I got a start on a few of the parts. I started on the barrel wrench, the flintcock, the tumbler, and the rough sanding and file work done on the frame. 20190613_195622.jpg

    The barrel wrench and flintcock is most of the way complete, I squared up the end of the tumbler as well as the hole in the cock to a nice fit. I have a few casting sprues to remove yet from the trigger, trigger guard, cock top jaw, barrel tang, frizzen, and bridle before filing, sanding, and polishing those components. I am waiting for the drills and taps yet as Kevin forgot to include them in the kit. They will be sent out tomorrow however and I should have plenty to keep me busy until they arrive.

    Overall I am extremely happy with the quality of the castings, the fitment of the barrel to the breech is excellent and lines up perfectly. Dealing with Kevin has been great as well, I have been very pleased with the customer service and communication throughout.

    I think that tonight I will put some time into the bridle and perhaps polish the frame a bit more. I haven't decided yet if I want to bring it up to a full polish or leave a few imperfections. I know that I will be less concerned about using it if I leave it short of perfect. Does anybody have any thoughts? Would you guys go fully polished and mirror shined, or leave a few character marks and a bit of age to it?
     
    Nyckname and Shot deer like this.
  17. Jun 14, 2019 #17

    dave_person

    dave_person

    dave_person

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,317
    Likes Received:
    273
    Hi Jeff,
    Ultimately, do final polishing with stones and oil. Mineral or paraffin lamp oil work best because they have no odor. Do not use a buffing wheel. Undersize the tumbler hole in the lock plate and either ream it to fit the tumbler or use some abrasive powder (I use aluminum oxide) and oil and lap the tumbler into the hole until it fits precisely. Does your action have a sliding trigger guard safety?

    dave
     
  18. Jun 14, 2019 #18

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    Jeff Kaufmann

    36 Cl. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    La Crescent, MN
    Hello Dave,
    It does having the sliding trigger guard safety. As to the tumbler I initial reamed it and then honed it smooth and round with a fine stone on my dremel tool. It rotates perfectly smoothly and no play at all within the frame.
    Why do you suggest the stones and oil for final polishing instead of a Buffing wheel and jewelers rouge if I may ask? Is it for a finer final polish?
     
  19. Jun 15, 2019 #19

    dave_person

    dave_person

    dave_person

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,317
    Likes Received:
    273
    Hi Jeff,
    A buffing wheel will dish out all of the screw and tumbler holes, round over corners, and the results will be obvious from quite a distance. Just look at the India-made stuff that is horribly polished with wheels. Use stones and oil, which preserves the details and sharp features. I can always tell a gun polished with a buffing wheel. They never look authentic.

    dave
     
    Jeff Kaufmann and Brokennock like this.
  20. Jun 15, 2019 #20

    Brokennock

    Brokennock

    Brokennock

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    290
    Location:
    North Central Connecticut
    An excellent example of a reply that many people can learn from, not just the person who asked the question.
    I'm sure many knew this answer, but I doubt the o.p. and I are the only ones who didn't.

    Thanks Dave.
     
    Jeff Kaufmann likes this.

Share This Page



arrow_white