Purpose of Wads, ie: Oxyoke Wonderwads ??

[roundball]

Oxyoke advertises that their prelubed 'Wonderwads' have a number of benefits...one of which is to provide a velocity increase with the same powder charge based upon the wad sealing more gas pressure behind it, thereby reducing the amount of pressure loss through blowby.

With the wad minimizing pressure loss and variations there is also a more stable shot-to-shot pressure consistency, therefore velocity, and shot-to-shot consistency results in improved accuracy / smaller group sizes.

As I have come to understand it, a patch by itself is really not a good gasket...no doubt the patch material in the grooves helps hold back / prevents some blowby but can't possibly make a perfect seal against 8000-9000 psi hot gas pressure flowing around a ball through the grooves, patricularly when the folds of material are facing forward in the same direction that the gas pressure is trying to escape.

An excellent example of that is the slow motion video that circulates around every so often making that very point...shows that a patched ball coming out the muzzle of a rifle is preceeded by several inches of smoke and flame before the ball even exits and comes into view, and I assume that's the same rationale Oxyoke wad advertisements are based on.

I'm lucky to be the proud owner of a new chronograph and after hunting season I'll be recording the velocity of my own specific loads in different calibers...and while I'm at it, it'll be easy to do some checks with & without wads as well.

But until then, help me predict what I'll see when I shoot two series of shots with the same powder charge...one series with an overpowder wad, one series without an overpowder wad.

Will there be a difference in velocity?

If so, which series of shots will have a higher velocity?

Hope to have actual test results in a couple months.

 

[snagg]

I won't be able to help predict but I will be most interested in the results. You have talked before about using them and I've been tempted to try them. The chronograph will likely be the most accurate method of accummalting those results, don't you think.
I'll thank you ahead of time for your time and effort.

snagg

 

[playfarmers]

Sounds like a great idea. I will look forward to seeing the results. I too have a chrono and will do the same thing when it warms up. About 3 years ago I ran a few loads over the chrono, but didn't know much then. I had no Muzzleloading forum to help me along. I used a Lyman Deerstalker in .50 cal,.495 ball 2f Goex at 80g and a over powder felt wad, velosity was 1470 fps. Then I tried the same load with 2f Elephant and got 1420 fps. Then 80g of Pyrodex RS and got 1612 fps, that was the load I used for years. I also tried 90g of 2f Goex and a 245g Bal-et and got 1376 fps. I no longer have the Deerstalker but now have a .54 Trade rifle. This is a great place to read and learn.

 

[nchawkeye]

What happened to..."I got away from cartridge guns and into muzzleloading because it is so much simpler"...

Am I having a case of CRS or have I heard that somewhere..... :hmm:

 

[roundball]

Nothing...I have to prove if Oxyoke's advertisement is correct or not...and I really don't want the thread hi-jacked :v

 

[Stumpkiller]

I don't have a chronograph, but I can tell you Cherry Girl leaks gas at both ends worse than Uncle Rod the day after Thanksgiving. But I can't prove or disprove any powder blast beats the ball out. Who knows how the rifle was loaded in the "video", the depth of rifling, size of ball or thickness and lube job of the patch? I suppose a bit of cardboard will help some, but if the force I have to use to get the ball down with a cloth patch doesn't seal it, and the obturation of the lead doesn't further seal it, then I'm not convinced a disc of cardboard is going to give me a measurable percentage of increased velocity or decreased need of powder. I'd have to see some test results.

 

[Thunderchild]

One thing I have found about wads is that they are very hard to find to fit a 577 bore. Seems that 54 cal an under there are plenty of sources for wads.

 

[roundball]

I suppose a bit of cardboard will help some

No idea about that...I'm referring to Oxyoke 1/8" prelubed wool wonderwads...seems hard to believe that a company would have fabricated and then published a lie about their product for almost 20 years, and printed it on every bag of lord knows how many 100's of thousands of bags shipped all over the country...this will be just another good reason to get the Chronograph into operation.

I figure I'll be able to start back at the range at the beginning of February...going to take a .22cal handgun with me to set up and learn how to use the chronograph so I'm not hasseled with ML reloading at that point, then once I get it figured out, switch to a ML and see what my RB hunting loads do...then run some shots with and without wads...should be interesting.

 

[slowpokebr549]

Hmmmmm.....I would bet on an increase.It has to do at least some sealing. I use them for overpowder wads in shot loads so there has to be some sealing action or I wouldnt get the killing power out of my 12 gauge that I do.Behind PRB or minnies there might not be much difference.Don't shoot your new chrono off the bench finding out. I once watched a friend assasinate his brand new Oehler skyscreen.

 

[buttonbuck]

My hypothesis I agree with roundball my shoulder has told me so. I intend at some time to get a series of patch-wad cutters made up at the machineists friends when I run out of ox yokes. I think they are good. I wonder if chronographs are affected by the smoke of a black powder firearm much? In the lyman book they did not shoot with wads in alot of guns so this will be valuable I am excited and looking forward to your data.

 

[roundball]

My hypothesis I agree with roundball my shoulder has told me so. I intend at some time to get a series of patch-wad cutters made up at the machineists friends when I run out of ox yokes. I think they are good. I wonder if chronographs are affected by the smoke of a black powder firearm much? In the lyman book they did not shoot with wads in alot of guns so this will be valuable I am excited and looking forward to your data.

From something I read somewhere, if I set the screens up at least 15 feet away I should be OK...

 

[GreyWhiskers]

Roundball,

I'll bet the shots fired with wads will show a small amount of velocity increase over the shots without. But I think the biggest improvement will be in the Standard Deviation (SD) column. In other words, the shots will be much more consistant in velocity.

I put my screens a full 7 yards in front of the muzzle. Closer and I would get error readings, probably from the patch.

Looking forward to seeing your test results. GW

 

[Smk50]

Roundball, I would agree with Grey Whiskers. I put my chrony at 15ft like the booklet says, and I get error readings quite often(from the patch, I assume) I also tape a 2x4 welding lense over the face of mine so any powder blast wont screw up my abilty to read what it says over time. I love mine. really opens a whole new world, when trying to find a load. Sean

 

[Blizzard of '93]

interesting info, I was wondering what velocity I was getting w/my .50 and had my que answered. I don't own a chrono but know groups tighten noticeably when using an overpowder felt, I make them using duro-felt and a punch.

 

[MercerLake]

:v Roundball, if you are using a "sky screen" type of chronograph you should get pretty good results by using the plastic diffuser covers over the screens on bright clear days and not using the diffusers on overcast days. I tape my chronograph (duct tape) to a sawhorse at least 25 ft out from the muzzle then position a target down range so that the path of the ball will clear the screens by 6-8 inches and still miss the diffusers.
I'm sure that you will see a lower SDV with the Wonder Wads over no wads. Increases in velocity may be observed depending on the load you are shooting and any existing leakage. The wads of almost any type will reduce burning of the patch. The additional lube helps keep fouling softer.
Chronographs are handy tools to encourage consistancy of each step in loading. Have fun! :v

 

[roundball]

Seems to be a consenus that 20-25' feet away would be better than the original 15' I'd read somewhere.

The chronograph is a PACT Pro MK5, with the head unit sitting on the bench, cabled to the screens down range. The screens snap into a rail that mounts on a tripod...will place a target stand just a few feet past the screens to use only as an aimpoint.

During the tests my only interest will be executing the tests without damaging anything, not doing any shooting for any particular distance or normal accuracy practice...just want to get the balls through the screen cleanly.

 

[Mountainman56]

Roundball I have used my chronograph several times with my muzzleloaders and I always tape a piece of clear plastic over the windows to keep out the powder residue. Other than that it's just like they say....diffusers on clear days and none on overcast days and you should have no problems. With plastic covering the lenses you can also use it much closer than 15'. You just have to experiment as to what works best for you. Will be looking forward to your information. Have fun and Merry Christmas.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

During the tests my only interest will be executing the tests without damaging anything ...

I hear you there :thumbsup: !

I wish I lived closer, as that sounds like a fun test to do. 2 additional thoughts I had were:

1) Curious with the PRB load that if you runa lubed patch down the barrel AFTER loading (like Paul usually recommends) whether or not you see any measurable velocity increase or lowering of the standard deviation (SD).

2) After this test, if the Oxyoke wad load indeed has measurable differences in higher velocity and a more consistent SD, it would be cool to fire that load and a PRN load to see if you can wring any discernable accuracy difference out of the firearm.

 

[Geraldo]

From something I read somewhere, if I set the screens up at least 15 feet away I should be OK...

You should be fine. IIRC the instructions for my Oehler state that for rifle shooting the screens should be about that far out. If you're really concerned you could also set up a piece of cardboard with a window cut in it ahead of the screens to cut down on blast/etc downrange.

I think you'll see some increase, but I wouldn't bet on it being a lot. Either way, it sounds like a fun test. Just remember that for it to be valid you're going to have to shoot a lot. It will be a sacrifice, but I'm sure you're up to the challenge. :wink:

 

[roundball]

My main thought was to have it far enough away when using a muzzleloader that the smoke and/or the wad/patch combo wouldn't trigger false readings.

I first thought I'd just set the screens up in front of a target at 15-20yds so there would be no question that only the ball would pass through the screens.

But with the cables only about 18 feet long, unless I get extension cords I'd have to set the unit off to the side of the target...which I can still do...but think I'll just max out the cable length from the shooting bench to begin with, make sure it at least works fine with a .22cal, then see what gives with the ML.

Planning to try the .62cal rifle as I have a couple dozen pulled balls from hunting trips to use up anyway