Price of powder in 18th century

[Zonie]

It is virtually impossible to establish the value of the US dollar during colonial or Rev War times.

Each colony or state issued its own currency and it varied from place to place.
It also was subject to high inflation often becoming basically worthless.

Here's a link to an interesting Wikipedia article about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_American_currency

Here is a link to a rather interesting article about black powder in the colonial period. https://allthingsliberty.com/2013/09/the-gunpowder-shortage/

 

[19 16 6]

Ain't no way I'm buying donuts by the ten.

Same here in a country with metric weights & measures.
Eggs, beer, wine, flowers, oysters are just a few others I can think of.
O.

 

[Black Hand]

Your simply wrong about that!

Please PM me your evidence. But before you do, look up the Treaty of Tripoli and the factual evidence that contradicts your assertion. History is a brutal thing made of facts that are verifiable. What you have asserted is revisionist history dating back to the early 20th century and the rise of the fundamentalist christian movement...

 

[tenngun]

And powder was a common product back then. Today it’s a specialty. Linen was the fall back cloth, today cotton and synthetics has taken its place. So linen brings a price. Lobster was fed to horses and slaves. In Elizabethan England tea brought its weight in gold, as did pepper some years before. Now we have to pay an inflated price for heirloom vegetables and ”˜organic’. Grass feed beef used to be called beef. Few stores offer sweetbreads, tripe, tongue or kidneys, and liver comes frozen and sold in the case. All used to be common meats, many the meal you got in the tavern.
People might work a month to pay for a gun, but his job might provide bed and found. Single men were likely to rent a small room only, and lived ”˜cheaper’ then we do today. Even wealthyfamilies might have little cash.

 

[Zonie]

I think ideally, if George or someone could find an ad in a newspaper from the 18th century that lists the price of bread or flour and elsewhere in the paper lists the price of gunpowder or lead we could figure out what the going price was in modern days.

Like say a loaf of bread could be bought for 1/10 of the price for a pound of powder back then, we could see that today a price of a loaf of bread costs $2.00, then a pound of powder would cost $20.

Yah. I know. Finding those colonial newspaper ads would be virtually impossible but I can hope.

 

[Bo T]

"Base-12 is not very efficient.
In addition to a couple of 3rd-world nations, the USA just can't seem to get with the program..."

I cannot help but reason that if the majority had but one more finger on each hand and one more toe on each foot, utilizing base 12 would be as efficient as base 10. Efficiency really isn't the issue as a base 12 system, developed to the extent the base 10 decimal system has been, would work just as well. As long as everyone is rowing in the same direction....

 

[George]

I have lots of prices, but not usually in useful amounts, bushels, hundred weight, etc. The first are from the Bureau of Statistics, some common foodstuffs, modern prices should be available..

Cost of Living 1777
New England Area

Pounds Sterling................Shillings...Pence
fresh beef per pound............3
chicken per pound................5
milk per quart.......................2.........1/2
cheese (local) per pound.......7
butter per pound.................10
coffee per pound...................1..........4


Christiansbrunn, the 9th September, 1773
[Christian’s Spring Moravian settlement, PA, custom rifle]
She costs 8 pounds all together and with the powder @ 3 shillings per pound makes twelve shillings, for a total of L8.12.-. Because it is very good powder I have added two pounds more than you requested.

So, price of powder was the same as fresh beef.

I'm sure this will be helpful, too.... :grin:

The Pennsylvania Gazette
February 15, 1759
ANDREW BREEHEL, Furrier, In Third street, near Market street, Philadelphia, GIVES the following Prices for the Skins hereafter mentioned, viz.....for all black or all white smooth or hairy Dog skins Two or Three Shillings

Spence

 

[tenngun]

A math system is only as efficient as we learn it. Base twelve and base sixty worked fine in Mesopotamia. MesoAmerica did will with a base twenty.
Things are only natural because we learned it that way. The Romans didn’t say it was may 16, or the 16th of may or 16 may or 5/16/18. Instead it was three days after the ides of may or fourteen days before the calands of June. Even though they reckoned time from the founding of Rome they counted years by the counselship of so and so, or years since the consulship of so and so
Hours were 1/12 of day light, summer hours longer then winter, and night hours different then day hours.
During the Middle Ages time was reckoned in hunks instead of hours,Prime, nones, vespers ect.
Each area could have its own measure. A rod in Paris not the same as a rod in London. However math remained the same. To look balanced a church four rods wide should have one rod wide ambulatories on the sides. And so they were built.
English money is only confusing now because we didn’t grow up with it. A trail that’s ten k, or six miles, or two leagues long ought to have a beer at the end.

 

[tenngun]

Just thinking. That hand made rife at 8£ equals 160s. Powder at 3sequals 1/54 of 160 (1/53+8d). Lastpowder I bought was twentytwo. That would make that rifle about $1100.
Or...
should we value that rifle at $3500 (high but not over the top) that makes that powder worth about $60 a lbs :idunno:

 

[M. De Land]

Well, metric donuts would be bigger than regular donuts so you wouldn't have to eat as many to be full! :rotf:

 

[necchi]

Well, metric donuts would be bigger than regular donuts so you wouldn't have to eat as many to be full! :rotf:

Not really, manufacturers would just down size from 9cm to 7.5cm instead of 3 1/2" to 3".
I remember being able to buy a quart jug, now you can only get 750ml,,

 

[Artificer]

I have lots of prices, but not usually in useful amounts, bushels, hundred weight, etc. The first are from the Bureau of Statistics, some common foodstuffs, modern prices should be available..

Cost of Living 1777
New England Area

Pounds Sterling................Shillings...Pence
fresh beef per pound............3
chicken per pound................5
milk per quart.......................2.........1/2
cheese (local) per pound.......7
butter per pound.................10
coffee per pound...................1..........4


Christiansbrunn, the 9th September, 1773
[Christian’s Spring Moravian settlement, PA, custom rifle]
She costs 8 pounds all together and with the powder @ 3 shillings per pound makes twelve shillings, for a total of L8.12.-. Because it is very good powder I have added two pounds more than you requested.

So, price of powder was the same as fresh beef.


Spence

Let's add in the fact that unskilled laborers in that period made about 6 shillings a week. So a pound of fresh beef or a pound of gun powder was half a week's wages for them.

Semi Skilled Laborers made 6 to 8 shillings a week. Skilled Tradesmen Journeymen made at least 8 shillings to between 10 to 12 shillings per week. Senior Journeymen might have made 16 to 18 shillings a week.

So neither a pound of fresh beef, nor a pound of powder, was by any means inexpensive in the period.

Edited to add: What I am not sure of, was whether or not all Journeymen were fed meals in addition to their wages, so that will further complicate figuring "real costs" in the period, if some Masters provided meals or some meals and in some cases lodging as well.

It is sort of like figuring military wages for single troops. Their wages include housing, health/dental costs and meals - so they aren't paid as much "up front" as some civilians in the same occupations and experience.

Gus

 

[Grenadier1758]

Well, metric donuts would be bigger than regular donuts so you wouldn't have to eat as many to be full! :rotf:

Not really, manufacturers would just down size from 9cm to 7.5cm instead of 3 1/2" to 3".
I remember being able to buy a quart jug, now you can only get 750ml,,

Hm, a liter is 33.8 ounces and my fifth of bourbon is pretty close to 750 ml and my euro-pint beers are 500 ml or 16.7 ounces. Not everything got smaller.

So, while that pound of powder may have had the equivalent price of a pound of beef, that pound of powder with its brother ball could be used to provide quite a few servings of venison and the skins could be used to buy more powder and ball.

 

[tenngun]

Looking up wages in the British navy I saw that a petty officers made about £20-£27 per year, on avarage about 1.5s per day+ three square meals, beer and rum per day. Meals came with a pound of meat or cheese per day. Some captains kept the slop chest full and didn’t charge the men. Some would let the men be in rags unless they paid them selfs. I wonder who had the best crews :shake:
Even poor house records show meat as an issue to the improvised two or three times per week.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I think ideally, if George or someone could find an ad in a newspaper from the 18th century that lists the price of bread or flour and elsewhere in the paper lists the price of gunpowder or lead we could figure out what the going price was in modern days.

Like say a loaf of bread could be bought for 1/10 of the price for a pound of powder back then, we could see that today a price of a loaf of bread costs $2.00, then a pound of powder would cost $20.

Yah. I know. Finding those colonial newspaper ads would be virtually impossible but I can hope.

When I was a practicing economist we used a loaf of bread, a pair of shoes and a man's suit as a cost equivalent to judge inflation or gauge buying power of a currency.

But I got better.

 

[Stumpkiller]

From the New York Times of 10th August 1861

"In the Revolution the price of gunpowder was as high as $25 per keg, or $1 per pound. At the present time it can probably be bought by the Government at from $4 to $5 per keg, each keg weighing 25 pounds."

That's what I found.

 

[TFoley]

Yup, go to Fort Clatsop and you can see a replication of one of the L&C powder containers. A great piece of pure Yankee thinking right there.

I recall that they had miniatures to go on a latch-key fob, but being a tightwad, I forewent the deal.

tac

 

[TFoley]

Correct.

And for interest' sake -

£sd (pronounced ell-ess-dee and occasionally written Lsd) is the popular name for the pre-decimal currencies once common throughout Europe, especially in the British Isles and hence in several countries of the British Empire and subsequently the Commonwealth. The abbreviation originates from the Latin currency denominations librae, solidi, and denarii. In the United Kingdom, which was one of the last to abandon the system, these were referred to as pounds, shillings, and pence (pence being the plural of penny).

This system originated in the classical Roman Empire. It was re-introduced into Western Europe by Charlemagne, and was the standard for many centuries across the continent. In Britain, it was King Offa of Mercia who adopted the Frankish silver standard of librae, solidi and denarii in the late 8th century,and the system was used in much of the British Commonwealth until the 1960s and 1970s, with Nigeria being the last to abandon it with the introduction of the naira on 1 January 1973.

Under this system, there were 12 pence in a shilling and 20 shillings, or 240 pence, in a pound. The penny was subdivided into 4 farthings until 31 December 1960, when they ceased to be legal tender in the UK, and until 31 July 1969 there were also halfpennies ("ha'pennies") in circulation. The advantage of such a system was its use in mental arithmetic, as it afforded many factors and hence fractions of a pound such as tenths, eighths, sixths and even sevenths and ninths if the guinea (worth 21 shillings) was used. When dealing with items in dozens, multiplication and division are straightforward; for example, if a dozen eggs cost four shillings, then each egg was priced at fourpence.

As countries of the British Empire became independent, some abandoned the £sd system quickly, while others retained it almost as long as the UK itself. Australia, for example, only changed to using a decimal currency on 14 February 1966. Still others, notably Ireland, decimalised only when the UK did. The UK abandoned the old penny on Decimal Day, 15 February 1971, when one pound sterling became divided into 100 new pence. This was a change from the system used in the earlier wave of decimalisations, in Australia, New Zealand, Rhodesia and South Africa, in which the pound was divided into two of a new major currency called the "dollar" or "rand". The British shilling was replaced by a 5 new pence coin worth one-twentieth of a pound.

For much of the 20th century, £sd was the monetary system of most of the Commonwealth countries, the major exceptions being Canada and India.

tac

 

[will5a1]

Thanks Tac, that was helpful, especially defining guinea.

 

[Gene L]

As for guineas, there was a class thing going on. You paid your landlord in pounds, your tailor in guineas.

Back to the 12-system. Because consumers were getting ripped off on a dozen bread sales, Edward 1 made it a whipping offense for a baker to short count a consumer. Hence, the baker's dozen became born.