Potential Newbie Questions

[waksupi]

Always remember, you get what you pay for.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Just found this forum and hoping the experts here can provide me with some insight

To date I've mostly been interested in Military C&R firearms (Garands, Mauser, etc) but recently I had an opportunity to shoot a black powder rifle at my range. Since then I cannot shake the thought of acquiring a BP firearm.

Due to my interest in military history, I'm really only interested in smoothbore musket type firearms but have the following questions:
1. Would I be crazy to go the matchlock route as my first BP firearm? Honestly, the simplicity and historical aspect of it greatly interests me but wonder if I'm just asking for "trouble". If not a matchlock then I'd go for flintlock (percussion just doesn't excite me).
2. I do not think I could spend $1K+ for a BP firearm. I've seen websites with the cheaper ($600 to $750) rifles that I believe are Indian made - for an occasional shooter, are they ok?
3. Due to the monetary concerns in #2, would I be crazy to just get a pistol (larger horse pistol)to quench my BP curiosity?
4. How hard is it to clean and take care of a BP firearm? For example do you have to fully remove the barrel and lock from the firearm for a thorough cleaning after each time at the range?

Sorry if my questions span several sub-forums. Any other thoughts for a potential newbie?

Thank you!

1. No, not crazy at all but it wouldn't be mu first recommendation without a mentor. match cord is going to be difficult to find....so you will probably have to make your own. It also require a higher level of safety when reloading.

2. You get what you pay for...saving a little more money and time can get you a gun that is vastly superior.

3. Crazy can often be defined by: "The inability to make rational and sensible decisions"..... :hmm: :haha:

4.Cleaning a muzzleloader is extremely easy...IF! you are patient, diligent, and know what you are doing....The lock and barrel are not necessarily required to be removed for cleaning...I have guns that have only had barrels or locks removed a few times in decades of shooting with no adverse affects....This doesn't mean you don't have to clean them though....

My suggestion for a newbie with no experience or mentor, would be to start with an inexpensive percussion gun with a hooked breech.

 

[trent/OH]

Strangely enough, my wife was actually somewhat supportive of the idea - I think the idea of shooting without going through multiple boxes of expensive modern ammo appeals to her...

I financed my Brown Bess by selling my 1911-A1, and I have never regretted it. Bess is much more fun, and if necessary, as intimidating.

 

[Wes/Tex]

And you don't have to pick up empty brass! :wink: :haha:

 

[coloradoclyde]

And you don't have to pick up empty brass! :wink: :haha:

Well!...You shouldn't leave those spent musket caps laying around.....folks can trip over those things.... :wink:

 

[Grenadier1758]

No brass to lay about if you are shooting a Brown Bess with a flint lock. You really shouldn't leave dull flints and all those cleaning patches lying on the range though.

 

[azmntman]

:hmm: If one stubs a toe on a thrown out (dull) flint should one cauterize with 2f, 3f or 4f? Those dull cuts can hurt worse than a sharp one I hear :rotf:

 

[Grenadier1758]

Just spray some of your rubbing alcohol on one of the used cleaning patches. That should keep things under control until its time to amputate the toe. I use flints with a flat top and don't normally trip on them.

 

[Tom Compton]

2. I do not think I could spend $1K+ for a BP firearm. I've seen websites with the cheaper ($600 to $750) rifles that I believe are Indian made - for an occasional shooter, are they ok?

"Nothing is more miserable than a flintlock that won't spark. Simple mechanism but the metallurgy is critical and the lock geometry makes all the difference. I'd either look used or save longer."


Ditto this! I am in the process of acquiring a NW Trade Gun flintlock. I spent a good bit of time looking at options from kit to in the white to completed and also manufacturers/makers.

The main thing that eliminated those offerings made in India is concerns of the lock itself. Geometry as well as metallurgy. I opted for good quality US made locks. I am not one who can correctly harden a frizzen or tune a lock an if I need support, I can call the manufacturer and send it for repair or tuning or acquire replacement parts.
just my take on it.
TC

 

[nkbj]

Perhaps worth the two cents...

Find a used high quality reproduction flintlock musket for the best available price. In the war between the nations those muskets were called pumpkin chunkers. If it strikes your fancy you can finagle a rear sight too.

 

[Irishmusket]

The Indian made matchlocks are excellent and authentic and well made I own many hunt with them successfully .With shot effective range is 30 + strides with ball 100 + strides deadly accurate to 60 strides 1 pound coffee cans all day.Shooting matchlocks is a shooting skill very different and unique from other muzzle loaders .with good match they are actually fare more reliable than flintlocks.They are sensitive to damp conditions (as are flintlocks ))they are slower to load and present special dangers due to the burning match .I have been shooting Matchlocks for over 50 years prefer then them over firelocks they are simple and reliable have far fewer issues than the flintlocks The last 4 years an Indian match musket has put a Turkey on the table

 

[Sam squanch]

If push comes to shove, you can fix your matchlock yourself . They are simple. A bad flintlock is just a fishing sinker. And matchcord can be made, if you can’t get flints or caps. Just be very careful......

 

[TFoley]

Thanks everyone for the information! Yes, I do have a concern about this becoming the start of a more expensive hobby Strangely enough, my wife was actually somewhat supportive of the idea - I think the idea of shooting without going through multiple boxes of expensive modern ammo appeals to her...

Regarding the range concern with matchlocks, I had a similar thought and was going to email them whether or not it is permissible (to see if even an option). Honestly the simplicity of the matchlock is very interesting to me but I could see the range having a concern with a lit match being close to black powder...

Any thoughts regarding the cheaper Indian guns and/or whether going into the hobby with a horse pistol is a feasible way to get started for smaller $? Not planning to use it for matches or hunting but at the same time I'd like it to be somewhat reliable at the range (i.e. go "boom" when I pull the trigger).

Thanks again!

It worked out just fine for the Jamestown Boys....

 

[Leadball loader]

It worked out just fine for the Jamestown Boys....

It should be noted that the flintlock quite rapidly replaced the matchlock in the James town era!! No lit match to worry about!
LBL

 

[Irishmusket]

The flintlock came around about 1620 it was NOT SEEN here in any numbers until the end of the English Civil War in the mid 1600s England did not replace the matchlock in their military 1690s with the Doglock it was gradually replaced in 1730 by a true flintlock The Long land pattern (the Brown Bess ) The historical facts are in 1620 1 and 10 of musket in the colonies was a fire lock by 1675 4 out of 10 were fire locks by 1700 9 out 10 were firelocks.

 

[Leadball loader]

The flintlock came around about 1620 it was NOT SEEN here in any numbers until the end of the English Civil War in the mid 1600s England did not replace the matchlock in their military 1690s with the Doglock it was gradually replaced in 1730 by a true flintlock The Long land pattern (the Brown Bess ) The historical facts are in 1620 1 and 10 of musket in the colonies was a fire lock by 1675 4 out of 10 were fire locks by 1700 9 out 10 were firelocks.

I believe that by the start of King Philips war in1675 the flintlock was the primary ignition system for English colonials. The process of change having been driven by the adaption to war in the wilds of North America.
Native Americans also made the change to the flintlock at this time. The change started some years before the start of Philips war as early as the 1630s after the Pequot war and the availability of the true flintlock surged.There are interesting papers on these interesting times. The trade in furs being a primary driver in flintlock distribution to Native Americans and colonial armory s upgraded to counter the threat thus posed by this.
You can google this information.
LBL

 

[dogfood]

I had a Short Land Bess from Loyalist. Ot was a solid piece to bw sure. A lot of folks find that since the Indian guns are made with teak wood for their stocks they are heavier than their original counterparts and try to light them up.
I was working at the Rhode Island Historical Society at the time I bought the Bess. I shouldered a few of the originals and sure enough they were a lot lighter...but that's in part due to their barrels being thinned out with use and the wood drying out.
There's an argument to be made that because of how much of rhe work on them is done by hand, that they are more period correct than the factory made ones outta Italy and the like.
Loyalist is a great place ro do business with. Really reinforces the friendly Canadian stereotype
Shipping a gun from Canada down here is no sweat. Only hinky thing is the lock ships separately. I think it was $100 shipping on the Bess, which is to me within the range of reasonable.