Possible Wonder Lube Problem

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Dillon W.

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Guys I hate to potentially beat a dead dog here but I seem to be having a cleaning issue here. I’m pretty new to this so I’m pretty eager to hear some of your insights. After cleaning my rifle I’m still having crud come out on dry patches that I’m not totally certain about. I just bought myself a Lyman GPR back in April and I shoot it 2-3 times a month. I’m starting to notice this issue. I clean in hot water and then dry patch it, then a windex patch, dry patch, then a healthy coat of ballistol. But today, and last weekend, I haven’t been able to get all the crud out. I thought it was rust at first, but now I’m not so sure that’s what I’m seeing. It’s more brown than red. And literally just a few minutes ago, after the rifle sat for about 3 hours, I ran a dry patch down it out of paranoia, I get black greasy crud! But just on the first pass? Then back to this brown? I’m using pre-lubed shooting patches. Wonder lube to be exact. I always felt like they were too heavy on the lube. Something tells me that’s the problem but I’m not certain. Ever seen this?
 

EC121

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Simple. Try another lube. Never liked it or used it, but I've read that it will turn brown from oxidation. I had some once, but threw it away and kept the plastic jar for mixing mink oil.
 

bang

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Use hot soapy water. Wet the bore then scrub with a brush. Wet the bore again then start dry patching. If the patches don't clear up when dry repeat.
Once it's clean run a patch with alcohol to remove residual moisture. Then light oil.
After a day check it.
I had a similar issue. Ended up making a tool to file the grooves. Turned out there was some pitting and crud was getting trapped in it. Couldn't believe the crud I got out before the feel of the tool was smooth. Went ahead after and did complete lap job then another round of 250 strokes per groove filing. Now it cleans up. And the grouping closed up.
 

bang

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Well it's puzzling. Something is holding crud. Have you checked it out with a good bore light?
Was the rifle new or used?
Have you picked up spent patches and inspected them for tearing? Mine seemed silky but was tearing patches.
How often do you swab when shooting?
Regardless of the lube you should be able to get a final clean patch with a good cleaning. Seems you are giving it a good go of it.
 

Dillon W.

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The bore appears to be fine with the light, I bought it brand new. My patches are frayed around the edges most of the time. Every once and a while I have one torn but I’m not sure what that entails
 

bang

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Wish I could see it.
Fuzz from a good patch, to me, indicates some rough spots. Being a new barrel it should smooth up after shooting it a while. As far a cleaning I'm sure a pitting can trap crud but a simple new barrel minor burrs shouldn't.
 

bang

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Might try removing the barrel and soaking it in soapy water overnight then bronze brush it and see how it comes out. The brown is better than red but remaining crud can still cause some corrosion. If the soaking doesn't do it I would oil it heavy and keep brushing and patching till it comes clean. I would do it every day for at least a week. If it doesn't come clean I would consider contacting Lyman about and see what they say. Just doesn't seem feasible that a new barrel won't clean to clean patch.
 

Rat

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Doubt that it's wonder lube, I've never had a problem with it, and use it in multiple guns. In fact, I keep trying other lubes, and mixing up all sorts of concoctions, but always wind up going back to it, as it just seems to work for me.

Torn patches can be the result of too thin a patch, or too hot of a load for the patch, and have nothing to do with bore condition. I have a rifle that will burn and tear patches, to a small extent, with one wad under the ball. If I use two wads, the patches come out good enough to use again, which I often do. But it would be easy to think the patches were tearing at the muzzle, or that the bore was rough or pitted, etc.

Maybe try cleaning with a black powder solvent, instead of soap and water. I swear by "Blue Thunder", from October Country Muzzleloading. And, maybe get some pillow ticking and make your own patches. I'm not sure what the pre-lubed patches are made of. But again, I highly doubt your problem is lube related. Try some different cleaning methods.
 

bang

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Doubt that it's wonder lube, I've never had a problem with it, and use it in multiple guns. In fact, I keep trying other lubes, and mixing up all sorts of concoctions, but always wind up going back to it, as it just seems to work for me.

Torn patches can be the result of too thin a patch, or too hot of a load for the patch, and have nothing to do with bore condition. I have a rifle that will burn and tear patches, to a small extent, with one wad under the ball. If I use two wads, the patches come out good enough to use again, which I often do. But it would be easy to think the patches were tearing at the muzzle, or that the bore was rough or pitted, etc.

Maybe try cleaning with a black powder solvent, instead of soap and water. I swear by "Blue Thunder", from October Country Muzzleloading. And, maybe get some pillow ticking and make your own patches. I'm not sure what the pre-lubed patches are made of. But again, I highly doubt your problem is lube related. Try some different cleaning methods.
Yeah should have specified torn but no burn. I've shot .010 patches that like you said can use again.
Something odd considering it's new. Never saw a new barrel that wouldn't come clean.
 

Darkhorse

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A couple of brake cleaner soaked patches will clean that wonder lube mess out. After it 's clean and well oiled find another lube.
 

Walkingeagle

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New Lyman barrels require several shots to get the sharp edges worn off. By several, think over 100 shots. You have a good barrel as they are all shooters, just require an extensive break-in.
Regarding the crud, I would use brake clean soaked patches to remove whatever it is, then dry patches followed by gun oil. It would not bother me to continue to use the patches you have up, but I would buy unlubed patches in the future then just lube them yourself.
Walk
 

45man

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Crud buildup can be caused by the wrong ball, patch fit. I have found the ball must be engraved by the patch roughly .005" at the grooves for the best seal. This is a good scraper too to clean grooves out as you load. Torn patches are caused by leakage of gas. They usually do not burn.
I never liked Wonder Lube and most home made lubes posted here are better.
 

Carbon 6

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Guys I hate to potentially beat a dead dog here but I seem to be having a cleaning issue here. I’m pretty new to this so I’m pretty eager to hear some of your insights. After cleaning my rifle I’m still having crud come out on dry patches that I’m not totally certain about. I just bought myself a Lyman GPR back in April and I shoot it 2-3 times a month. I’m starting to notice this issue. I clean in hot water and then dry patch it, then a windex patch, dry patch, then a healthy coat of ballistol. But today, and last weekend, I haven’t been able to get all the crud out. I thought it was rust at first, but now I’m not so sure that’s what I’m seeing. It’s more brown than red. And literally just a few minutes ago, after the rifle sat for about 3 hours, I ran a dry patch down it out of paranoia, I get black greasy crud! But just on the first pass? Then back to this brown? I’m using pre-lubed shooting patches. Wonder lube to be exact. I always felt like they were too heavy on the lube. Something tells me that’s the problem but I’m not certain. Ever seen this?
Are you shooting a substitute powder?

Ditch the Windex and use some soap in your water to cut through the wonder lube and ballistol.

Are you using a jag to clean or a eyelet patch holder?
Are you using commercial gun cleaning patches meant for cartridge guns?
If so switch to old T-shirts.
When you clean with water do you use the bucket and pumping method?
Use alcohol to remove any last traces of water from the barrel, It is hyrdophilic, most petroleum based products are hydrophobic.

Do you clean the Ballistol out of the barrel before you start shooting? Completely?

Stop buying pre-lubed patches and start making your own patches and lube.

Most things you can buy on a store shelf like pre-lubed patches, wonder-lube, bore butter, and substitute powders are there for new shooter convenience, but actually cause them problems instead and drive many new shooters to give up the sport. . They also make the sport extremely expensive.
 
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