I'm getting ready to start the finishing work on my rifle. Is there any tips or tricks I need to know about using the Plum Brown (how many coats?) etc... Plus any tricks for using aqua fortis on my stock would be greatly appreciated.
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Plum Brown
- Thread starter Sully
- Start date
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Bill Brockway
32 Cal.
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2004
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- 1
Like Tanstaafl, I used to use Plum Brown, until I discovered Laurel Mountain Forge. The Plum Brown does give a nice color, but it depends on the even heating of the barrel. It also contains selenium, which is a poison that can be absorbed through the skin and fingernails.
LMF is ever so much more forgiving.
Bill
LMF is ever so much more forgiving.
Bill
Guest
I used plum brown with so so results. Then I used blue and rust remover with 0000steel wool to remove 90% of the plum brown. Finally I applied 2 coats of perma blue on it and it resulted in a rich black/brown color which I pretend is the rust blue of the old days. I reapplied some perma blue last week and really darkened the barrel nicely. The perma blue is super easy to use. None of this was on purpose but more of a trial and error mixed with indecision. Good luck. (Be sure and research the correct finish for your gun first)
:imo: Plum Brown is great for small parts like lock plates, hammers, frizzens, buttplates etc but it is a real challenge to do a barrel and to have it come out with a even colored finish.
The problem is controlling the process.
BC PB must be applied to an very clean surface without ANY oil, grease or fingerprints (they are oily).
The metal then HAS to be heated to a temperatuer of 260-290 degrees F. If it's hotter than that, the solution will boil off to fast and leave uneven blotches.
If it's colder that that, the solution will look like it's browning, but then it will deposite Copper on the surface. :curse:
This copper must be removed by sanding it off (putting you back to the start of the process).
The need for precise (+/-15 degrees F)temperature control almost requires using an oven, but darn few barrels will fit in a home oven.
If your making a pistol, I wouldn't hesitate to use my wifes oven, but I would have to run outside with the barrel and start applying the PB immediatly.
If your like me, a propane torch and some good guessing is about all you can do.
BC PB takes at least 3, usually more like 5 coats to get a nice even colored surface.
Between each coat, you must wash the crusty solution off of the barrel, which means you have to reheat the barrel to do the next coat. Don't use the ungreased steel wool you get at the store for this. It will deposite wax on the surface and screw up everything.
You must do this browning OUTSIDE. The fumes boiling off of the hot metal will tell you at first whiff that this stuff shouldn't be breathed by man or beast.
I have used Plum Brown on at least 8 rifles, and each time, after I get a few coats applied I ask myself why am I doing this.
The surface must not be polished, but should be sanded smooth. A polished surface will not take the process evenly, but a rough surface will show thru like a sore thumb.
This process does not add anything to the surface to cover up sanding or filing marks like the cold process eventually does.
It is not a quick process. A barrel usually takes me about 2 hours to apply the Plum Brown. This does not include the intial drawfiling or sanding.
I believe this is why so many use the cold browning process on the large items like a barrel.
After your done, apply a coat of linseed oil to the surface and let it sit overnite. The next day it will look much darker and more uniform.
The problem is controlling the process.
BC PB must be applied to an very clean surface without ANY oil, grease or fingerprints (they are oily).
The metal then HAS to be heated to a temperatuer of 260-290 degrees F. If it's hotter than that, the solution will boil off to fast and leave uneven blotches.
If it's colder that that, the solution will look like it's browning, but then it will deposite Copper on the surface. :curse:
This copper must be removed by sanding it off (putting you back to the start of the process).
The need for precise (+/-15 degrees F)temperature control almost requires using an oven, but darn few barrels will fit in a home oven.
If your making a pistol, I wouldn't hesitate to use my wifes oven, but I would have to run outside with the barrel and start applying the PB immediatly.
If your like me, a propane torch and some good guessing is about all you can do.
BC PB takes at least 3, usually more like 5 coats to get a nice even colored surface.
Between each coat, you must wash the crusty solution off of the barrel, which means you have to reheat the barrel to do the next coat. Don't use the ungreased steel wool you get at the store for this. It will deposite wax on the surface and screw up everything.
You must do this browning OUTSIDE. The fumes boiling off of the hot metal will tell you at first whiff that this stuff shouldn't be breathed by man or beast.
I have used Plum Brown on at least 8 rifles, and each time, after I get a few coats applied I ask myself why am I doing this.
The surface must not be polished, but should be sanded smooth. A polished surface will not take the process evenly, but a rough surface will show thru like a sore thumb.
This process does not add anything to the surface to cover up sanding or filing marks like the cold process eventually does.
It is not a quick process. A barrel usually takes me about 2 hours to apply the Plum Brown. This does not include the intial drawfiling or sanding.
I believe this is why so many use the cold browning process on the large items like a barrel.
After your done, apply a coat of linseed oil to the surface and let it sit overnite. The next day it will look much darker and more uniform.
rich pierce
70 Cal.
On Plum Brown- it is fast and strong and not much room for managing things like variations. But it does wear nicely.
On AQF: try a scrap, every piece of maple is different and reacts differently. If you have home-brew AQF and it's full of iron and looks muddy, strain through a coffee filter. I wash the stock and raise the grain 2x before staining but some folks do 3 times.
OK, applying the AQF: apply plenty wearing gloves and cover the gunstock smooth and fast. Rub more in until the stock has absorbed what it can readily absorb.
Now let the stock dry. Half an hour is plenty indoors with air heating. Do not worry about a green tint now, it's normal. I rub the stock now with a coarse cloth to take off any "moldy stuff".
I do my heating over the gas burner and hold the stock about 10" above and have no problems. I always keep the stock moving around. Lots of folks use heat guns, paint guns, with success. I have used red hot iron passed over it but I seldom have the forge fired up when staining a gun. You have to get it HOT but you do not want to set it on fire, char and dull sharp edges, etc. So keep it moving, back and forth, turning. You'll see the color come richly.
Stain it again until it is darker than desired. Same deal, add AQF, dry, wipe, heat.
OK, now you should neutralize the AQF unless you will follow with potassium permanganate. I neutralize with fresh and saturated baking soda in warm water, adding all that a cup of warm water will stand. Stir it up good. Now SLOP it on heavy and rub with a towel, repeat. Some stain will come off on the towel. No worries.
Now wash the stock really well with water. Lots and lots of water. I know this seems crazy but you want all the acid, all the sodium bicarb out of that wood.
I wipe it down and let it dry overnight not in direct heat. Then I let it dry in a dry warm place before sealing. You can tell when it is dry because the parts will fit reasonably (sliding patchboxes, locks, etc.).
On AQF: try a scrap, every piece of maple is different and reacts differently. If you have home-brew AQF and it's full of iron and looks muddy, strain through a coffee filter. I wash the stock and raise the grain 2x before staining but some folks do 3 times.
OK, applying the AQF: apply plenty wearing gloves and cover the gunstock smooth and fast. Rub more in until the stock has absorbed what it can readily absorb.
Now let the stock dry. Half an hour is plenty indoors with air heating. Do not worry about a green tint now, it's normal. I rub the stock now with a coarse cloth to take off any "moldy stuff".
I do my heating over the gas burner and hold the stock about 10" above and have no problems. I always keep the stock moving around. Lots of folks use heat guns, paint guns, with success. I have used red hot iron passed over it but I seldom have the forge fired up when staining a gun. You have to get it HOT but you do not want to set it on fire, char and dull sharp edges, etc. So keep it moving, back and forth, turning. You'll see the color come richly.
Stain it again until it is darker than desired. Same deal, add AQF, dry, wipe, heat.
OK, now you should neutralize the AQF unless you will follow with potassium permanganate. I neutralize with fresh and saturated baking soda in warm water, adding all that a cup of warm water will stand. Stir it up good. Now SLOP it on heavy and rub with a towel, repeat. Some stain will come off on the towel. No worries.
Now wash the stock really well with water. Lots and lots of water. I know this seems crazy but you want all the acid, all the sodium bicarb out of that wood.
I wipe it down and let it dry overnight not in direct heat. Then I let it dry in a dry warm place before sealing. You can tell when it is dry because the parts will fit reasonably (sliding patchboxes, locks, etc.).
Laurel Mountain Forge (maker) and can get from TOW.
It is a cold rust brown, requires a humid atmosphere (in the winter I use a wet box) and is pretty well bullet proof if directions are followed. Any questions, be sure to ask before applying.
Bushwhacker
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2004
- Messages
- 146
- Reaction score
- 0
Plum Brown?? Yuck, You're much better off using Laural Mtn. browning
SimonKenton
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2004
- Messages
- 1,250
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Zonie,
I have a tiny problem with the browning on the barrel of my TVM TN rifle. Having no opportunity to go shooting since it arrived in July I have kept it in a breathable fabric case from MLBS. The patchbox hinge was stiff so I added a couple of tiny drops of Break Free and it works OK. Now I've noticed dozens of tiny rust spots all over the barrel. The gun was finished in late June and shipped in July so the browning process may have continued somewhat. How do you clean up the spots (without harming the really good browning job) and arrest the browning process before it turns into real rusting.
-Ray :what:
I have a tiny problem with the browning on the barrel of my TVM TN rifle. Having no opportunity to go shooting since it arrived in July I have kept it in a breathable fabric case from MLBS. The patchbox hinge was stiff so I added a couple of tiny drops of Break Free and it works OK. Now I've noticed dozens of tiny rust spots all over the barrel. The gun was finished in late June and shipped in July so the browning process may have continued somewhat. How do you clean up the spots (without harming the really good browning job) and arrest the browning process before it turns into real rusting.
-Ray :what:
AQF?? Nitric acid and iron or steel. I would suggest that you DO NOT use steel wool. Nails work fine. This stuff gives off fumes that will corrode anything they touch. I suspect the fumes will also desolve your lungs :shocking: :shocking:
Simon: Try using some #0000 steel wool. Use only enough pressure to remove the soft rust. Be especially careful around the points (or sharp edges) of the octogan. Because they are sharp, a little pressure equates with a very high load in pounds per square inch so it is easy to remove too much of the "rust" at those locations.
Don't worry about degreasing the steel wool, the wax on it will actually help protect your barrel.
After you have the speckles removed (or almost removed) apply some linseed oil, wipe it off and let it set for 24 hours.
If you really want to protect the surface, after the linseed oil has dried, apply some good paste wax and buff it off.
IMO, browning is much thicker and tougher than any blueing. That is why you can use steel wool on it without harm.
Don't use cleaning pads which are for polishing the bottom of pans. Many of these have harsh abrasives imbedded in them and they can cut thru the toughest browning before you realize it. :boohoo:
Simon: Try using some #0000 steel wool. Use only enough pressure to remove the soft rust. Be especially careful around the points (or sharp edges) of the octogan. Because they are sharp, a little pressure equates with a very high load in pounds per square inch so it is easy to remove too much of the "rust" at those locations.
Don't worry about degreasing the steel wool, the wax on it will actually help protect your barrel.
After you have the speckles removed (or almost removed) apply some linseed oil, wipe it off and let it set for 24 hours.
If you really want to protect the surface, after the linseed oil has dried, apply some good paste wax and buff it off.
IMO, browning is much thicker and tougher than any blueing. That is why you can use steel wool on it without harm.
Don't use cleaning pads which are for polishing the bottom of pans. Many of these have harsh abrasives imbedded in them and they can cut thru the toughest browning before you realize it. :boohoo:
