Pedersoli Indian trade gun arrives

[Britsmoothy]

No, I don't consider myself better than anyone. What I really hope to do is to help people not make the same mistakes that have spent a lifetime of making.

So you asked if I think the Pedersoli is low quality. To answer than means that you have to define quality. For me there is no separating form and function. Both of those "Qualities" have to be there for something to be worth spending my money on. So even if the weapon is good from a functionality standpoint, the fact that it is a copy of nothing, and seems to have been designed to just come in a couple hundred bucks less than a dead on documentary copy of a NW gun means its totally usless to me. If you can save 1K to buy this gun, you can save 1200 and get a gun that actually looks like something from the period. Something you don't have to squint to make it look right. By the time you strip the horrible finish off the gun, or pay to have the frizzen rehardened, and replace the internals, you will have spent more than what you would have on a quality gun

I like working with wood. I did not pay anyone to harden my frizzen, I did it myself. No other internal parts have failed.
Are you implying to me/us that you are useless without your purse Sir ?!
Go see a doctor....that pole is making a snob of you!
I wonder what a native would think of the price of a trade gun today! He probably would laugh at you and me and bid on a
ucheap 22 and still take bear. :rotf:

 

[54ball]

I agree. It's unfortunate. At best I think it is inconsiderate and in poor taste to point out historical shortcomings real or imagined when that information was not requested.

I reenact, I strive to represent things to the best of my ability. I am a big fan of period correct guns and not just for reenacting but for having a little piece of history. There are times to fight the PC battle but this is not one of those.

I have seen junk guns and I mean pure junk at reenactments. Some toted by "professional reenactors" that get paid big money for their portrayal. The Pedersoli Indian trade gun is not one of these.

The OP is in the UK where it is difficult to own any type of firearm. Had he asked what is the "best" trade gun, I could understand some of the comments. Maybe the Pedersoli was the only one easily available to him. But still that doesn't matter because he never asked, What's wrong with my gun?.

Honestly there is not much wrong with it. The design is several decades old. Ironically, the same folks that poo poo it now may have welcomed it decades ago before the days of the internet and instant history.

The gun is a composite of a type that by some sources was manufactured by several manufacturers in at least three countries in various configurations for over two centuries 1700-1910s. IMHO the gun has some attributes of both the Carolina and NW types. It has both 18th and 19th century attributes. It is what Pedersoli claims it is, a representation of an Indian Trade gun. When you consider restocks or gunsmith modification over such a long time period, that really opens things up historically. As far as this thread goes, none of this really matters because the OP did not ask.

If that lock might have issues, then by all means give him some advice on circumventing or curing them, otherwise why not let him enjoy his new toy.

This gun does have a history of having a troublesome lock. Troubles with frizzen harness and geometry have been reported. For a new one I advise the OP to have good sharp flints that fit, make sure the frizzen face is smooth, be prepared to adjust flint position.

Also with a new or new to him flint lock, he needs to give the gun a chance as he works through the learning curve. Most problems are fairly simple to correct but the new owner should not go into it with a preconceived notion that his lock will be faulty. He needs to first give it a chance and if there are problems he can cross that bridge when and if it comes.

 

[Wes/Tex]

It surprises me to hear so much about a bad lock since the one I used last year went off on time and all the time! Granted, every little thing may not have matched museum pieces, but it's a good hunting gun. Since it had sling swivels already on it, I used them as a suspension to raise and lower the gun in and out of a stand that required climbing a ladder and walking out on a large oak limb...didn't want to drop somebody else's shooting iron! I sat up there in wind and slumped over it during rain. When I pulled the trigger though, it went BOOM! every time. I give it high marks. :thumbsup:

 

[pargent]

:thumbsup: when the originals were made at such a penny pinching price .

 

[tenngun]

I have to say that while we should all try our level best to be as hc as we can we cant ignore cost,avalablity and usefulness. Whats 'wrong'with he pedersoli? we can count off the points, but it does well represent the 'spirt' of the trade fusil. It aint perfect, but it is good,and none of us has perfect. We all do the best we can and try to improve till the day we can no longer do it. A guy whos trying, and carring a pedersoli is welcome in my camp any day, I just hope he can over look my short commings.

 

[DanChamberlain]

I have one that I bought in the white from Dixie. I made it look really bad (testament to my skills), actually, I wanted it to look like it had spent 100 years in service already.

As for HC, the other day I saw an "original" Colt 1860, that had been shortened to 5" of barrel. This appears to have been done sometime in the 1800s. It's too bad it's not HC. I mean, who the hell would want that if a grandfather passed it down.

 

[Alden]

...it does well represent the 'spirt' of the trade fusil. It aint perfect, but it is good...

I'd say it's a fine piece for the composite representation it is admittedly meant to be:

"A model faithfully reflecting the type...
These guns showing the classical lines..."

By the way, grits aren't helpin' Luke and his "I'm perfect, you ain't, but I'll condescend to help you all see the errors of your ways."

Oh, and Luke, if I really wanted someone else's trade gun I'd get a quality one by Doc White.

 

[larryp]

The nice thing about the sling on the gun is that it makes it handy for hunting and leaving your hands free to carry things. I ordered my Chief's Grade trade gun with swivels just so I can drag a deer out of the woods easier.

 

[Luke MacGillie]

...it does well represent the 'spirt' of the trade fusil. It aint perfect, but it is good...

I'd say it's a fine piece for the composite representation it is admittedly meant to be:

"A model faithfully reflecting the type...
These guns showing the classical lines..."

By the way, grits aren't helpin' Luke and his "I'm perfect, you ain't, but I'll condescend to help you all see the errors of your ways."

Oh, and Luke, if I really wanted someone else's trade gun I'd get a quality one by Doc White.

We obviously have different tastes, and versions of what we consider correct. If condesending means that I think that reproductions need to share more than just the use of wood, ferrous metal and brass with what it is supposed to be, well so be it.... I wonder, do folks on car forums build repros of stock chevy's, and get angry when someone questions why they put a ford engine in it?

Sometimes I think that folks here, if the plans for something called for a 1/2 inch bolt torqued to 50 ft lbs, they would use a 3/8ths only hand tight and and dare anyone to say otherwise cause 3/8ths hand tight is how they have "Fun"

So I am done with this thread, to the OP, I once again I hope you have a wonderful time with this piece. I hope all the stars and moon are in alignment and you never have to reharden a frizzen, or replace a tumbler, and someday, I hope your free to purchase something other than Pedersoli......

 

[azmntman]

So I am done with this thread

:thumbsup:

I respect your right to pursue purism, respect ours to enjoy what we pursue....weather it be H/C or just alot a stinky smoke or a few pounds of venison!

After all I would wager even 95% of the H/C crowd got started with a CVA or traditions type muzzleloader! Most didn't order or build a strictly H/C arm at first :surrender:

 

[Jumpshot]

I wonder, do folks on car forums build repros of stock chevy's, and get angry when someone questions why they put a ford engine in it?

The OP never asked if his Ford engine would be correct in a Chevy.

 

[azmntman]

Knew a body shop manager years ago, bought him a .36 brass el cheapo revolver for his B-day and he was hooked (then he died and I got it back). This guy would buy salvage and "create things", once made a crew cab p.u. out of a VW rabbit! (short bed ya know). LOL

 

[Britsmoothy]

Actually I read somewhere the Lott lock was a little slow and what have you.....so the Pedersoli is partly PC/HC :rotf:

It must be awful to have a piece of wood cause so much rectal discomfort that only the most perfect comforter to suck will do....it must be hard to move around too :slap:

If living in the land of the free makes one so rigid and stiff.....how is that free!

 

[gdick]

Well said Sir ! :thumbsup:
Reiver XXV

 

[Alden]

We obviously have different tastes, and versions of what we consider correct.

No, we probably don't Luke.

I never claimed anything about the Pedersoli being most "correct," and no-one asked you. But since you brought it up...

The Pedersoli is a Lott nicer example of all the trade guns than your specific one is. And I'm confident you'd throw yours away if you could just borrow a Doc White's...

 

[Alden]

I ordered my Chief's Grade trade gun with swivels just so I can drag a deer out of the woods easier.

That's just CRAZY TALK Larry! No-one would have a sling on a trade gun -- we were told so by Luke right here. But ruh roh shaggy...

...you don't mean that sorta familiar-looking
http://www.northstarwest.com/chiefs_grade.aspx

trade gun with sling swivels from NSW? Say it ain't so! They won't put options on a gun that aren't correct.

 

[larryp]

Why yes, that would be the one! :wink:

 

[tenngun]

Luke, I do wish it was more hc. I think being as close to perfect as we can get is the way to go. However I know many of my short commings and just try to do better on my next project. I don't think were splitting the blanket here, just trying to see the overall of a persons attempt to taste the past. I dont think I could point out the imperfections on a pedersoli, when holding my southren rifle with a german lock(because thats what I thought they had when I built mine) or my center mark tulle.
I agree we should all try to be as hc as we can, but on some level we are all doomed to miss the mark. Cost or a persons skill or taste is always going to skew the out come. I dont think my gun should carry the proof marks of the origanals, some folk put on such fake proof marks in the right size and place, just one line of difference between ny NWG and an origanal. But I stay away from slings,althougn I am sure some of the old shooters found a way to sling the gun.
All we can ever get is a moon cast shawdo of the past. Your research is an aid to you and those you share it with.
We have in the end to take the 'gestault' of our hobby, cause we all have beam blinded eyes.

 

[Alden]

Nice Larry. For a leftie you're all right!

Thanks.

 

[larryp]

Thanks Alden!