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Joined
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Early October ‘23 I made a long-term business arrangement with Old Guard Manufacturing in Poland. We exchanged dozens of emails finalizing a joint manufacture of a Museum quality 1600’s wheelock carbine based on a Dutch/German museum model to be distributed exclusively in the USA.

The wheel-lock itself and saddle ring Stocked w/ramrod would be Polish and the barrel would be a USA Rice match grade smoothbore octagon to tapered round 30” .62 (20ga). Final fitting, sights, underlugs, pinning completed in the USA. The agreement was set at 3 units per month for 36 units over 12 months with continuous options, which was a maximum production rate for Old Guard including accessories such as period iron mould and screwdriver, etc. All serial numbered to the gun. We agreed and I provided full prototype payment week one December, 2023. USA retail set as a more affordable $2289 shipped CONUS in wooden cartons beginning March 2024. This wheelock carbine would be top museum quality, worthy of collectors and shooters.

We agreed that I would purchase the Rice barrels and ship 2 to Poland for fitting no later than 12/15/2023, one to be shipped as a completed prototype to USA before the end of January ‘24 for USA test and evaluation, the 2nd barrel for a production pattern in Poland...and final production and delivery for the first 3 units to begin by end of March '24.

Most important that the agreement was to include continuous drawings and photos of our mutually approved prototype to begin mid December once Old Guard completed its normal production of its prepaid inventory and confirmed by Old Guard as completed.

I received one partial rough drawing early January. I incorporated and invested in a 1st class website to provide the drawings and photos to potential purchasers as prototype/production began to commence. After asking for production prototype drawings/photos several times in January in order to confirm our mutual agreement of production criteria, I received a the comment “do you want quality or quantity?”. It was obvious that the prototype would not arrive in January in order for 3 units a month to begin in March. By the end of January, I had booked 8 word-of-mouth deposits from museums and collectors for deliveries beginning end of March @ 3 serial numbered units per month.

No further prototype drawings or photos or communication received in January. Follow-up communications again for prototype drawings and photos in January extended to week one in February without response. Week 2 February no response, week 3 February no response, week 4 February no response, week 1 March no response!

Obvious promised deliveries beginning end of March or even stretched to April without a prototype by even late February was a reality. Continuous follow-ups regarding prototype in February and week one March received no response.

I refunded the 8 deposits mid March and notified Old Guard. I requested the return of the December prototype payment from Old Guard.

I will offer for sale the top quality USA Rice match grade barrels for $249 each ppd CONUS in late April. These magnificent in the white barrels have a 1” octagon for 10” with tapered round section 19.687 long. Overall length 30”. Muzzle dim of .900 and taper up to the 1” octagon dim. This leaves plenty of material for the precut dovetail front sight…with wall thickness .140 down to .085 . The front pre-cut dovetail sight is 3/8” wide .055 deep. The rear sight and 3 underlugs pre-dovetailed 1/2” wide and .055 deep. The breech plug w/2” square tang length is hand fitted to ensure the seal. On the bottom flat where the breech plug meets barrel it is witness marked so if breech plug is removed all that will be required to ensure the plug is timed and sealed again is to align the witness mark. Rice company Custom logo and caliber is engraved on bottom flat as well as serial number. No other stamps on barrels. The touch holes are not drilled. The barrels will need a modicum amount of draw-filing of machined finish if at all. Photos of bbl will be available. These barrels are magnificent!

Obviously I am in deep regret.
Respectfully,
Larry
 
I am so sorry to hear this. DARN. It sounds like Old Guard got cold feet. But if so, why not just say so earlier on ? Really strange. This sounds like it would have been a good opportunity for Old Guard to increase it's sales in the U.S. Not only for the wheellocks, but for their other accessories and items they make. The "Pre-Flintlock" group is a small minority within the muzzle loading fraternity. So the word will travel fast. Many will now be hesitant to order anything from them. Can't believe Old Guard would allow their reputation to sour.

Rick
 
I can’t imagine how disappointed you are. That was a massive amount of time and creative investment not to mention the financials and networking. Sorry at the loss of a great initiative. I wonder what happened on the Old Guard end of things?
Pathfinder I have no clue. Perhaps they will use my suggestions and the barrels/sights and underlugs that I sent them to their advantage. I paid the original cost of the barrels and again the same cost for shipping and absurd Poland tax and duties. To have them returned was out of the question. What began as an extremely positive and rewarding 6 month venture ended with simply a void of communication. Exciting and expensive while it lasted. But always in keeping the glass half full !
 
I am so sorry to hear this. DARN. It sounds like Old Guard got cold feet. But if so, why not just say so earlier on ? Really strange. This sounds like it would have been a good opportunity for Old Guard to increase it's sales in the U.S. Not only for the wheellocks, but for their other accessories and items they make. The "Pre-Flintlock" group is a small minority within the muzzle loading fraternity. So the word will travel fast. Many will now be hesitant to order anything from them. Can't believe Old Guard would allow their reputation to sour.

Rick
Rick an open mind is better than the opposite. What is unknown is best left to a positive future for the Old Guard family.
 
That’s really unfortunate. Sorry for your disappointment, but thank you for all the work you put in!

I wonder if material shortages and increased demand have stretched them too thin.
 
That’s really unfortunate. Sorry for your disappointment, but thank you for all the work you put in!

I wonder if material shortages and increased demand have stretched them too thin.
TobJohn...your guess is as good as mine and more than likely much better. It takes but little communication to ease a dilemma. Thank you.
 
Probably something to do with the war in Ukraine.

May be closer to the truth....! Just wish they were more upfront which would have been something I could live with ...
Most interesting ... and sorry to hear of this outcome.

I had engaged them last year about a similar arrangement, but by me trying to be a US source/distributor for their powdah measures, containers and accoutremonts et al. At that time ... they wouldn't commit.

When I did inquire about pistols or muskets I was told that the price of getting barrels over there inflated 3X the typical cost and that a lot of steel and machinst/machinery resources were going into making parts to support the war over in Ukraine. Having other friends in Poland, they support that notion too ... feeling that they are next to be on Putin's chopping block ...
 
Most interesting ... and sorry to hear of this outcome.

I had engaged them last year about a similar arrangement, but by me trying to be a US source/distributor for their powdah measures, containers and accoutremonts et al. At that time ... they wouldn't commit.

When I did inquire about pistols or muskets I was told that the price of getting barrels over there inflated 3X the typical cost and that a lot of steel and machinst/machinery resources were going into making parts to support the war over in Ukraine. Having other friends in Poland, they support that notion too ... feeling that they are next to be on Putin's chopping block ...
Your are correct Flint! That is the reason for my purchasing USA mfg. Rice bbls. to spec of the original museum piece....which are perfect. When they received the sample bbls I sent for the prototype...nothing but praise with 100% support. Agreed that once I received the locks and stocks with accessories, I would install the sights, underlugs, pinning with piano wire, plus touch holes drilled to customer specs, and final fittings plus make the wooden shipping cartons which I had already prepared. Even purchased enough quality iron pyrite to provide 12 each with each firearm. All for naught...only 6 months later. Time to turn the leaf for now. What is past is past.
 
Reminds me of the time I took an original double 16 bore conversion to cap shotgun to India I land at Bombay the Customs say " Need Liscence! " not needed in UK. So I go up to Cawnpore & on return collect the gun & take it back to England my notion of offering a double gun in flint or cap came to nought But the main man had a relative worked in a hospital near Chesterfield so we chatted ..fortuasly as on my return from Cawnpore I had all kinds of old goodies flasks ect & they search baggage going out. Some oik minion takes me up to see the head honcho Ime 'On the carpet'.But its the same man I had met comeing in so he shoos the mumbling out ranked minion off , & we chat but a lot of stuff got seized all the late decorated flasks got seized but older plain ones where deemed more recent mean while two cased double rifles go off the Heathrow I had missed my plane & had to suffers 24 hours in Bombay airport to get the next days Air Quate flight And there now pretty dizzy are my rifles going round & round. I had boxes of stuff they figured going on my reckoning of values(The guns being Antigue where duty free and I was an RFD.) So the Customs bloke says" By your reckoning thats xxx amount of duty " I say all Ive got is 10 US $ so hang onto the stuff & ile come back down tomorrow & pay you '' He says "Hmmm don't come it too often' Bugger off " So I duty fully did so.
I liked Air Quatte the Indian travel agents sold cheap tickets, they didnt give you alcohol but I liked the music .
Sympathizing Rudyard
 
Early October ‘23 I made a long-term business arrangement with Old Guard Manufacturing in Poland. We exchanged dozens of emails finalizing a joint manufacture of a Museum quality 1600’s wheelock carbine based on a Dutch/German museum model to be distributed exclusively in the USA.

The wheel-lock itself and saddle ring Stocked w/ramrod would be Polish and the barrel would be a USA Rice match grade smoothbore octagon to tapered round 30” .62 (20ga). Final fitting, sights, underlugs, pinning completed in the USA. The agreement was set at 3 units per month for 36 units over 12 months with continuous options, which was a maximum production rate for Old Guard including accessories such as period iron mould and screwdriver, etc. All serial numbered to the gun. We agreed and I provided full prototype payment week one December, 2023. USA retail set as a more affordable $2289 shipped CONUS in wooden cartons beginning March 2024. This wheelock carbine would be top museum quality, worthy of collectors and shooters.

We agreed that I would purchase the Rice barrels and ship 2 to Poland for fitting no later than 12/15/2023, one to be shipped as a completed prototype to USA before the end of January ‘24 for USA test and evaluation, the 2nd barrel for a production pattern in Poland...and final production and delivery for the first 3 units to begin by end of March '24.

Most important that the agreement was to include continuous drawings and photos of our mutually approved prototype to begin mid December once Old Guard completed its normal production of its prepaid inventory and confirmed by Old Guard as completed.

I received one partial rough drawing early January. I incorporated and invested in a 1st class website to provide the drawings and photos to potential purchasers as prototype/production began to commence. After asking for production prototype drawings/photos several times in January in order to confirm our mutual agreement of production criteria, I received a the comment “do you want quality or quantity?”. It was obvious that the prototype would not arrive in January in order for 3 units a month to begin in March. By the end of January, I had booked 8 word-of-mouth deposits from museums and collectors for deliveries beginning end of March @ 3 serial numbered units per month.

No further prototype drawings or photos or communication received in January. Follow-up communications again for prototype drawings and photos in January extended to week one in February without response. Week 2 February no response, week 3 February no response, week 4 February no response, week 1 March no response!

Obvious promised deliveries beginning end of March or even stretched to April without a prototype by even late February was a reality. Continuous follow-ups regarding prototype in February and week one March received no response.

I refunded the 8 deposits mid March and notified Old Guard. I requested the return of the December prototype payment from Old Guard.

I will offer for sale the top quality USA Rice match grade barrels for $249 each ppd CONUS in late April. These magnificent in the white barrels have a 1” octagon for 10” with tapered round section 19.687 long. Overall length 30”. Muzzle dim of .900 and taper up to the 1” octagon dim. This leaves plenty of material for the precut dovetail front sight…with wall thickness .140 down to .085 . The front pre-cut dovetail sight is 3/8” wide .055 deep. The rear sight and 3 underlugs pre-dovetailed 1/2” wide and .055 deep. The breech plug w/2” square tang length is hand fitted to ensure the seal. On the bottom flat where the breech plug meets barrel it is witness marked so if breech plug is removed all that will be required to ensure the plug is timed and sealed again is to align the witness mark. Rice company Custom logo and caliber is engraved on bottom flat as well as serial number. No other stamps on barrels. The touch holes are not drilled. The barrels will need a modicum amount of draw-filing of machined finish if at all. Photos of bbl will be available. These barrels are magnificent!

Obviously I am in deep regret.
Respectfully,
Larry
Well that’s disappointing .I ordered a mechanism for a “puffer “ from Bolek back in Dec of 22 . Hopefully I can get it before I’m too feeble to build guns anymore.
 
These guys MAY be in the Polish army reserves. If so , they have more important things on their minds. Or they are doing other jobs related to defense of their country. I’d give them some slack considering the situation over there.
 
These guys MAY be in the Polish army reserves. If so , they have more important things on their minds. Or they are doing other jobs related to defense of their country. I’d give them some slack considering the situation over there.
Sam they are a father and son business with several independent fabricators ...I thought of that and communicated with them many, many times prior to the first of the year with concern about Ukraines invasion from scumbag Putin. When the decision was made to terminate due to lack of communication, I asked for a refund for the expenses I prepaid. I immediately received an answer that they would pay back in installments. There was no indication of any other problem. I am in total support of anything regarding Ukraine's fight for freedom and democracy and so very disappointed that our congressional House of Representatives squashed any semblance of maximum support.....but that is another story and a political failure that I do not want to discuss on this format. I would do anything within my meager capability to support our NATO allies!
 
You may need to fly over and get some answers in person. I hate to think of these guys as con men.
 
You may need to fly over and get some answers in person. I hate to think of these guys as con men.
Sam I know these folks are not con-men. I have to believe they just do not do business like we do. They (business folks) always seem to be open and enthusiastic with an opportunity, very proactive, then when the hammer hits the nail their government seems to put the brakes on one way or another...with an objective to constantly keep dipping government toes in to test the water and requests as a minor participant in the ramp up of a new manufactured product quickly becomes an invasion of privacy. It may be a societal thing. In addition, It may also be a raw material management problem. I know for a fact that their government is not pro business...trade costs/delays in and out bound are absurd...to the point that for example, my UPS shipments both into and out of the country can be delayed for weeks for no apparent reason....even with all the "T's crossed and I's dotted" with extreme care....everything is mañana and how much the government can attach more costs. Go a few countries to the west for example Italy, France, Spain, Germany, Austria, etc., efficiency in shipments in and outbound are 180 degrees the opposite...trade costs are still high, but somewhere in all this, there is a middle ground where the Polish government makes it extremely difficult for a small business to promote growth and thus small family businesses have a fear of big brother even in their version of an open democracy. Now throw in the war situation with their neighbor Ukraine, specifically in my situation...Again, I have no clue.

Edit: Sam I appreciate your thoughts...but this project is over.
 
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I’d blame their membership in the European Union. Anything gun related is under scrutiny, unless it’s meant for the military or police. Then I read of a new union gun registration scheme. Assembled firearms was probably not a good idea for these folks.
 

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