Patches cut at muzzle

[StanD]

I’ve been buying pre-cut lubed patches for the last 30 years but after reading so many posts advocating using pillow material I thought I would give it a try so I have a couple of questions. It is easy to measure a rigid item with a micrometer but how do you measure the thickness of cloth that compresses. I can get readings from .015 to .020 and still be able to pull the material through the micrometer. Also do you just cut the material into squares or do you cut a particular width strip of cloth then cut it off at the muzzle? And if you do cut it at the muzzle what about lube. As I see it you would simply lay the end of the strip of cloth over the muzzle, press the ball down then cut the cloth, so what do you do about lube? Do you lube the whole strip before hand or do you lube just the end you’re loading with the ball. I know this is pretty basic stuff but like I said I’ve always used pre-cut patches so I was wondering how you all did this.

Stan

 

[64Springer]

Either lube the whole piece of material, lube just a portion of the material or use no lube at all.

Pick your poison.

As for patch thickness, choose the patch thickness that provides the best accuracy.

 

[COTNTOP]

When cutting at the barrel I have a solution of dawn and water in a spray bottle, spray a strip for about 3 balls. Also use T17 at times for patch lube when shooting rough barrels. Use the short end of ball starter to short start and that is when I cut patch. I try and use the thickest ticking available that will fit with the ball to be used. Also found out that a good patch knife is a must. I prefer the Dexter Russell thin blade with a rounded end. With a little imagination that knife can be made to look okay. That knife looks like what people use to cut valve stems off car rims.

 

[Frontier's]

You won't get better accuracy. Tested a tin, multiple rifles, not a dang bit of difference.

 

[deerstalkert]

cutting at the muzzle I tear a strip just wider than the muzzle slot one end to go over a button or something to have it hanging by my bag. while pouring powder i put the end of the patching in my mouth and get it lubed with spit. lay it over the muzzle and press it into the muzzle with my thumb. makes a little pocket for the ball. i short the ball just below the muzzle and cut the patching with a patch knife i bought from Two Feathers.
drive the load home and have fun.

 

[sheriff john]

I use the same ball starter which has a very short "nub" designed, I think, for just such use. That way, each shot has the same patch, all cut straight across at the muzzle. Pushes the ball/patch material in just far enough to slice off the patch perfectly. Some old-timer showed me what the nub was for long ago.

 

[smokepolehall]

I cut mine in strips that are wide enough to work well with the caliber i am using at that time. I pre-rub my lube into patch strip with an est. of how many i think i will shoot. When i return i put remainder into a clean pill bottle so it will stay clean. a .40/45 ball will need less width of patching strips than a .50 or .54 n so on.

 

[SDSmlf]

Also found out that a good patch knife is a must. I prefer the Dexter Russell thin blade with a rounded end.

Most any knife will work as long as it is sharp. A word of advice from the rescue squad. Cut away from your body and all body parts. The duller the knife, the more dangerous it can be.

I’ll cut the muzzle or use a loading block. Depends. I typically don’t use a short when cutting at the muzzle, using the pummel (as long as it is brass) of the knife to seat the ball. I usually carry a fixed blade knife, so with one less item to carry with no short starter. Here is a photograph of my knife that is HC/PC for the 1960s.

 

[Piquant]

I have some I cut just about thru, pre-lube them and stacked them in a pill bottle. Tear off as needed. I also bought a HF hole saw and grounded the teeth off and sharpen it on a stone. Chucked it in a drill press, folded the pillow ticking over a few time. I made several hundred in 10 minutes or so.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

cutting at the muzzle I tear a strip just wider than the muzzle slot one end to go over a button or something to have it hanging by my bag. while pouring powder i put the end of the patching in my mouth and get it lubed with spit. lay it over the muzzle and press it into the muzzle with my thumb. makes a little pocket for the ball. i short the ball just below the muzzle and cut the patching with a patch knife i bought from Two Feathers.
drive the load home and have fun.

Exactly what I do. A snug spit patch will keep you shooting all day.

As for cutting at the muzzle, I just think it’s fun to do and kind of cool. I buy my own patching material and rip it into long strips. I’m too lazy to make my own pre cut patches and buying them premade is way more expensive.

 

[StanD]

Thank you very much for the replies. I can see there are as many ways to do this as there are people so you have given me some things to try. I think though I will have to get some different material. I just measured the thickness of the stuff I bought and based on the feel of the micrometer on some .015 pre-cut patches and comparing it with the stuff I bought I believe my material is .020 thick which would be too tight. Kind of hard for me to judge.
Stan

 

[SDSmlf]

Thank you very much for the replies. I can see there are as many ways to do this as there are people so you have given me some things to try. I think though I will have to get some different material. I just measured the thickness of the stuff I bought and based on the feel of the micrometer on some .015 pre-cut patches and comparing it with the stuff I bought I believe my material is .020 thick which would be too tight. Kind of hard for me to judge.
Stan

How and with what you measure will make a difference. And once you find something that works, try and purchase a few yards of the stuff from the same roll you got the initial test sample from. You will then be set for some time.

What follows about measuring patch material thickness I have posted before.

I have found that if you can find one, a radius anvil micrometer works even better than a standard micrometer for compressed measurements of patch material. As an example, with normal pressure on a regular micrometer, a piece of denim may measure about .022” thick, however, this is NOT the important measurement. What is important, at least in my opinion and experience, is the compressed thickness. In this case, about .0155”. Also very important is how consistent you measure that thickness. I use a micrometer with a radius anvil and apply normal torque pressure as I measure. The radius anvil allows for a small area to be easily compressed. A standard flat anvil micrometer works also, you just have to be a bit more careful with how you apply pressure to compress the fabric to get consistent readings, at least in my opinion. Hope the following photographs help explain.

Below are two more photographs showing measurements of a different lot of denim. Normal measurement is .018” thick. Compressed, .0085” thick. With .012” deep grooves in the bore I would expect it to fail spectacularly as a patch material.

 

[StanD]

I have two micrometers but neither has a radius anvil. One is a Starrett and the other is a Cen-Tech made in China. They both read pretty much the same. If I compress the material at a reading of .015 I can still pull the material through the micrometer with quite a bit of tention, compressing it further to a reading of .012 it will not allow the material to pulled through the micrometer. Backing off to a reading of .020 I can pull the material easily with a slite bit of tention. So I guess the easiest way to find out if it is too thick or just right is to lobu it up and see if I can load a 530 ball. Thank you, those are great pictures and the best information I have found on how to measure the thickness of cloth.
Stan

 

[Timber Wolf]

When measuring patch material I am not so much trying to get an “accurate” measurement as I am trying for a consistent, repeatable, COMPARABLE measurement. In other words, I don’t care what the thickness actually is, but rather can I get the same thing each time and compare different material/lots. I have two kinds of ticking bought at Joann’s, a thicker Blue and thinner Red. I can’t remember what I was measuring the Blue at but the Red was reading a consistant .0133 by my technique.

I originally used the Red as spit patch, cut 1.25” wide and put in my mouth while loading powder and cut at the muzzle. But lately I have been running it “dry” after soaking in 5:1 Water/Ballistol and laid flat to dry. I then roll it up and store in old plastic film canisters until used. In use I usually just drape a length over my bag strap. I should mention most of my use of this material has been in smoothbores, a .58 Kibler, .62 Pedersoli Trade gun and .62 Jackie Brown.

 

[sheriff john]

You guys is serious about your patch material and I salute you for the information. When we had a blackpowder league that shot the same evening each week, several of us sorta got ...well, ok, we really weren't the same serious as you dudes...but did make some notes. Consensus was that pillow ticking had "sizing"? in it when new and needed to be washed before using it to shoot with. Of the half-dozen regulars, most everybody used the spit patch method, cut patches at the muzzle. 19 years ago. Fun times.

 

[StanD]

Timber Wolf

Yes, consistent and repeatable is the foundation of all testing. I think I will just snug down the micrometer till I just can’t pull the material out then open it up till it will pull through and read the scale. That should be repeatable enough to compare different fabrics.

Sheriff john

You are right, it is real easy to get caught up in running a multitude of tests and a lot of them don’t mean much. Years ago I had one rifle and one centerfire revolver. I had one load for each and never varied from that. But at the time these were tools. The rifle provided winter meat and revolver was worn for protection whenever I was working in bear country which was a lot of the time. Those were serious times. Now I shoot only for fun and part of that is trying different things. At almost 82 years old my eyes aren’t what they used to be but I compete only against myself so that’s OK. I intend to continue until I can’t and all this silly testing keeps things interesting for me. I appreciate all the comments I have gotten here. Most of you guys know a lot more about muzzleloading than I do and I learn a lot from you.

Stan

 

[Ed C.]

I use my vernier calipers to choose .015" pillow ticking at Hobby Lobby. I know how much pressure is needed to measure it by comparing the pressure used to get a .015" reading on known patches.
I take it home and wash it. Then on a piece of Plexiglas using a rotary fabric cutter I cut the fabric into 1 1/8 to 1 1/4" inch squares. For .50 cal. In about 10 minutes I'll have over a hundred. The night before I'm going to shoot I dampen the amount needed with either Olde Turkey Track or a 6:1 water to ballistol solution with a dab of Dawn soap. I squeeze out all the excess liquid and store the patches in a small airtight container ready for use at the range. I load using a jag with a patch on top of the ball using the same water/ ballistol solution. I get very good groups and don't have to swab between shots. This allows for pretty quick loading at the range with everything ready to go.

 

[SDSmlf]

I’ve been buying pre-cut lubed patches for the last 30 years but after reading so many posts advocating using pillow material I thought I would give it a try so I have a couple of questions. It is easy to measure a rigid item with a micrometer but how do you measure the thickness of cloth that compresses. I can get readings from .015 to .020 and still be able to pull the material through the micrometer. Also do you just cut the material into squares or do you cut a particular width strip of cloth then cut it off at the muzzle? And if you do cut it at the muzzle what about lube. As I see it you would simply lay the end of the strip of cloth over the muzzle, press the ball down then cut the cloth, so what do you do about lube? Do you lube the whole strip before hand or do you lube just the end you’re loading with the ball. I know this is pretty basic stuff but like I said I’ve always used pre-cut patches so I was wondering how you all did this.

Stan

Another bit of basic stuff that folks skip over is determining what thickness of patch material they may actually need/target for optimal results.

I have always used the general rule of thumb to start with a ball .010 under bore diameter (for example .490” for a .500” bore) and patch material that when compressed fills the windage between the ball and bore (.010”/2 or .005”) plus the depth of rifling. What is the depth of your rifling? If .010” for example you want to start with a patch material with a ‘compressed’ thickness of .015”. ‘Actual’ thickness will depend on your consistency with your measurement method.

You will also want to look for a tight fabric weave. Here in the Carolinas there are many textile mills. Talking to these folks they tell me that pillow ticking isn’t what it was even a few years ago. One of the main reasons for the tight weaves was the necessity to not let the feathers used to make pillows poke through the fabric. When was the last time you bought a goose down/feather pillow? The fabric manufacturers have also caught on and some have loosened the tightness of the weave on what is labeled pillow ticking. A marketing thing. It is much easier to contain a synthetic foam pillow than it is to contain individual feathers….

Read the label for 100% cotton, observe the weave tightness and measure thickness.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I feel like the pillow ticking of today is not nearly as tightly woven as it’s been in the past.

With that said, I haven’t had any issues with torn patches yet.

Cotton drill is still very, very tightly woven.

 

[Hawk54]

I feel like the pillow ticking of today is not nearly as tightly woven as it’s been in the past.

With that said, I haven’t had any issues with torn patches yet.

Cotton drill is still very, very tightly woven.

I would agree with that. I have several different batches of ticking and there are noticeable differences between some of them.