Need advice about trigger-LONG WINDED!

[Grantman]

I have a RMC flintlock with 28" barrel, L&R lock, fitted with a single trigger. Trigger pull was always very good- (2 pounds) Stock is a laminate that cracked through the wrist two years ago. I repaired it, but never really trusted it. I finally found a new factory replacement stock, but now I have a trigger problem. When I assembled the rifle in its new stock, the trigger pull seemed light-almost like a set trigger. Cocked and pulled the trigger several times and the rifle would not stay in the full cocked position. So, I removed trigger and lock, then cleaned and lightly oiled. All screws are snug. Placed everything back together in the old stock and the rifle cocked. Started cocking and releasing trigger. Each time I cycled the trigger the pull got lighter. After 5-6 pulls, the rifle would not cock. Hmm, I then pressed trigger while cocking hammer. When I released the trigger, the rifle stayed cocked. I repeated the above performance twice. I'm at a loss. I have a couple of double sets in the shop, but don't think I can fit them to this skinny straight grip stock. So, I need a good smith in north central PA. Don't know anybody locally with the right skill set.
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 10:31 pm

 

[jdkerstetter]

Sounds like you have a lot going on there. What makes me nervous is things are changing....that's not right.

Word has it that the former owner of RMC has relocated his business to Grove City, PA. Here's a link: http://morrismuzzleloading.com/home

I don't think they are building rifles anymore, but likely the owners can give you some advice or maybe offer to look at it for you.

Good luck and Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Bill Hall]

I'm not familiar with RMC rifles, but I assume they work like most others. If you have a simple blade on that single trigger, I'll betcha the trigger is seated higher (deeper) in the new stock, and the trigger blade is pushing up against the sear bar of the lock, before the trigger is even pulled back. This will cause the sear to barely catch in the tumbler notch, and is probably why it won't catch at all after a few hammer pulls. In this condition, when the sear does catch, it will have a lighter trigger pull than when the sear caught properly in the old stock. Unless I'm missing something, I think that's you're problem.

I just thought of something. Did you have any wiggle in your trigger (front to back) when it was installed in the old stock? Is there any wiggle when in the new stock? If there is wiggle in the old sock, but it seems tight in the new stock, that pretty much verifies that the blade is pushing up against the sear bar. You might check to see with both stocks.

A simple fix would be to file a hair off the top of the trigger blade, check it for proper operation, then file some more if needed. If your confidence isn't up to that, have it down by any gunsmith. Good luck. Bill

 

[tenngun]

I'm with you pard. Sounds like a simple fix.Built a full stock plais gun with long hawken style double set double leaver triggers.set it to high and my davis lock wouldn't catch well unless rear trigger was set.Handy file work fixed the problem.Long made their trigges out of dimond i think and was very hard to file. took as many hours i think to file those triggers as it did to inlet the triggers. worked fine afterwords

 

[don hepler]

I'm thinking the last two suggestions are right on, and you can shim the trigger plate down a little, just to check. If it works, then use the file, or leave in the shim. I had a similar problem, and the shim fixed it so I made a shim, because my wood had compressed over the years and let the trigger plate sink too far into the inletting, when the tang screw was tightened.

 

[54ball]

I'm thinking the last two suggestions are right on

I respectfully disagree. Bill,Jeff and mr west you all speak from experience but...
We had a motto in Fire and EMS called " DO NO HARM". Someone that was dead or near dead, we could empty the bag on them. It's not like your going to hurt them. Someone that was OK but suddenly developed a problem we need to investigate, gather all the facts before a definite diagnosis could be made and surely before evasive treatment begins.

Let's look at the OP's post for some possible clues.
In summary everything was assumed good until he put it in a new stock.

So, I removed trigger and lock, then cleaned and lightly oiled. All screws are snug. Placed everything back together in the old stock and the rifle cocked. Started cocking and releasing trigger. Each time I cycled the trigger the pull got lighter.

The he did some work and placed it in the old stock and still has problems. :hmm:

What could cause this?
ill fitment
improper assembly
damaged parts
rust

When I assembled the rifle in its new stock, the trigger pull seemed light-almost like a set trigger.

I would say ill fitting stock or improper assembly on the new stock with the ill fit being most likely.

All screws are snug

Are they too snug? You can tighten down the lock screws where the lock will not function. Key areas here are the sear and sear spring screw. A barely too tight sear and sear spring screw can cause the symptoms, as well as too tight bridle and tumbler screws. Heck even if the lock bolts are cinched up too tight in the stock it can cause all kinds of problems. Improper assembly?
Remedy... loosen the lock screws a little.

Placed everything back together in the old stock and the rifle cocked. Started cocking and releasing trigger. Each time I cycled the trigger the pull got lighter. After 5-6 pulls, the rifle would not cock. Hmm, I then pressed trigger while cocking hammer. When I released the trigger, the rifle stayed cocked.

Could this be damaged parts? Maybe but if so it's not the OP's fault sometimes things happen. He really needs to check the tumbler.

Rust...

I repaired it, but never really trusted it.

So it sat in the safe for two years? It does not really matter if he used it every day and cleaned it like a psycho rust can still sneak up on you.
All the problems sound suspiciously like a sticky fly. A fly could stick due to rust old grease or some dirt.

If the trigger bar is sticky it may stick up into the sear causing too light a pull.

If it were mine I would remove the lock and back off the screws. If no luck then I would dissemble it with a proper mainspring vice.
I would pay close attention to the fly and tumbler. Really inspect the notches on the tumbler. The fly in those L and R locks can be installed backwards and easily lost. Be sure to remove all rust and make sure everything functions smoothly.

Lock dis assembly is just maintenance you need to do it from time to time. Simple dissasembly and inspection has done no harm.

I would make sure my trigger moved easily in the trigger plate.

I would also really inspect that new stock for any obvious obstruction. It may come to file and fit but make sure the lock is 100% first.

If the OP does not have the skill set, seek experienced help.

Travis

 

[jdkerstetter]

.....also to your point Travis, if the screws on many set triggers are turned in too tight it increases the spring tension.

If the rear trigger spring tension is too strong and it is bearing on the sear bar as the lock cycles it can over ride sear spring tension and not allow the sear to engage the tumbler notches.

There are too many variables to troubleshoot over the net, for me anyway.

I could have suggested all of the above fixes too but I believe Grantman's insticts are correct.....

....So, I need a good smith in north central PA. Don't know anybody locally with the right skill set.

....and that's why I suggested the call to the original manufacturer as I don't know anybody locally that works on production muzzleloaders either.

Grantman, If you feel up to a road trip Dixons Gunbuilders' Fair is being held the weekend after this one in Kempton, PA. It's well worth a visit and it's an experience you won't forget. The bonus is that Dixons is the premier muzzleloading shop in PA, if not the whole NE US.

They have a full service shop and you can likely have it gone over there. Likely they wouldn't get to it during the show as they're too busy, but you could pick it up later or they could send it to you when fixed.

Good Luck and Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Birddog6]

From what I have read, you have not determined if the Lock is the problem or the trigger. You need to KNOW what one is the problem.....

Note when I say "Fire the Lock, that means Frizzen closed, flint in hammer, etc.

Take the lock out & cock it & close the frizzen & trip the lock, fire it over & over & over....... If it stays cocked like it should & fires like it should, it is not the lock. If it will not stay cocked or trips too easily, you have a lock problem to fix.

IF the lock performs correctly... That brings us to possibly the lock is Binding in the inlet. Leave the trigger asm out, put the lock in like it should be & put the retaining screws in. Cock the clock & fire it pushing up with a screwdriver against the sear arm. Do it Over & Over & Over...... If it works correctly every time, THEN we go to the trigger part.

If the trigger asm.is Too Deep in the inlet, this will keep the sear arm from dropping enough to let the sear engage fully, because it is hitting the triggerbar.
Be this the case, you may need to shim the triggerplate OUT to move the triggerbar away from the sear arm. Believe it or not, a few thousands of clearance or non-clearance can made all the dif. in the world.

Keith Lisle

 

[Grantman]

Thanks for the help. The replacement stock was purchased through the shop in Grove City, that is owned by the RMC people. They were not able to fit the stock for me. I will loosen the screws just a bit to see if that helps at all. The lock was cleaned with brake cleaner and a toothbrush then lightly oiled with kroil. Dixons is a great idea. I will be in NJ the last week of July and will stop on the way home and see if they will fit the lock and install the double sets. :thumbsup:

 

[Billnpatti]

If he is not experienced and lacks the proper equipment such as a spring vice, he ought not try disassembling his lock. What I would recommend is a good cleaning without disassembling the lock. the best way to do this is to get a can of automobile carburetor cleaner or brake cleaner and spray out the lock. Of course, it must be out of the stock because those cleaners will play havoc with the stock finish. Give the lock a thorough flushing with the cleaner, blow it out with compressed air or just let it air dry. Then lightly oil the working mechanisms in the lock, replace it in the stock, and see if that solves the problem.

 

[crockett]

If the trigger is pinned to the trigger plate, the trigger plate may be too far into the new stock- in effect preventing the sear from catching. Remove the trigger plate and put a shim (paper-cardboard) under it to move it farther out and try that- it is a very common problem that pops up from time to time.

 

[Grantman]

I took the rifle to Dixon's shop last Thursday. Unfortunately, they no longer do smithing, just too busy with the store. So, I'm back to square one with my problem child. Did manage to walk out with 2 pounds of Swiss, so it wasn't entirely a waste.