Maxi Ball Questions

[e.estern]

I shot Ox Yoke Maxi Balls for the first time in my recently acquired .45 T/C Seneca. I've only ever used PRBs so I wasn't exactly sure of the correct technique. I just got the grooves as well packed with Wonder Lube as I could and seated them on top of the charge. I tried 60gr FFg and then 70, which is the recommended best load in the TC manual for the Seneca. The 70 gr load gave me a couple of 2-3 inch groups at 50 yards off a rest. Anything else I should try to improve the accuracy? The Wonder Lube was pretty soft, maybe too much so, it barely stayed where I put it. All in all it was a pretty messy process, made me think I should just stick with round balls. Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[deerstalkert]

put a felt wad between the powder and your lead. not sure of the overall mechanics of it but it shrunk my 45 yard groups from 6-8 inches to 1.75-2 inch 5 shot groups. and that is from a Lyman .54 gpr with a 1-60 twist.

 

[Bad Karma]

I shot Ox Yoke Maxi Balls for the first time in my recently acquired .45 T/C Seneca. I've only ever used PRBs so I wasn't exactly sure of the correct technique. I just got the grooves as well packed with Wonder Lube as I could and seated them on top of the charge. I tried 60gr FFg and then 70, which is the recommended best load in the TC manual for the Seneca. The 70 gr load gave me a couple of 2-3 inch groups at 50 yards off a rest. Anything else I should try to improve the accuracy? The Wonder Lube was pretty soft, maybe too much so, it barely stayed where I put it. All in all it was a pretty messy process, made me think I should just stick with round balls. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Soft is good but you could add a bit of beeswax to stiffen it slightly.. Those bullets carry a huge amount of lube. In fact, you might try filling only the smaller of the two grooves. You might also try adding an oversized dry wool or card wad under your bullet and swab between shots. I’ve added these to the regimen. Very quick and easy to swab then dry patch and reload.

 

[e.estern]

I will try a dry wad. Another question: Is it possible to come up with a load for PRB that shoots to the same point of impact? Or would that end up being too hot for a delicate rifle like the Seneca?

What size dry wad?

 

[Bad Karma]

I will try a dry wad. Another question: Is it possible to come up with a load for PRB that shoots to the same point of impact? Or would that end up being too hot for a delicate rifle like the Seneca?

What size dry wad?

I use .50 caliber wads for .45 caliber rifles. The cards I use are .465” I think…

I’d be surprised if they both hit POA, but it could happen. Those Seneca rifles are pretty light. I believe it’s wise to stick with the TC recommended maximums…

 

[hanshi]

The stresses on a rifle are greater when firing heavy conicals than when firing prb. It's just my opinion but the Seneca is a small, light rifle and I would not want to stress it when shooting prb does the job with accuracy and power. Nipples burn out more quickly than the ones using the milder prb.

 

[stikshooter]

I shot Ox Yoke Maxi Balls for the first time in my recently acquired .45 T/C Seneca. I've only ever used PRBs so I wasn't exactly sure of the correct technique. I just got the grooves as well packed with Wonder Lube as I could and seated them on top of the charge. I tried 60gr FFg and then 70, which is the recommended best load in the TC manual for the Seneca. The 70 gr load gave me a couple of 2-3 inch groups at 50 yards off a rest. Anything else I should try to improve the accuracy? The Wonder Lube was pretty soft, maybe too much so, it barely stayed where I put it. All in all it was a pretty messy process, made me think I should just stick with round balls. Any advice would be much appreciated.

stik with patched round ball and a felt wad over the powder (what the gun was made for) and buy a TC Renegade for conicals and round balls over a felt wad (hint get a 54 ) 80/90 gr OE 2 or 3 F under either will go a long ways with accuracy and deer jus hate it /or squirrels !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[new2bp]

For the lube, beeswax will harden and lanolin will make sticky. I've done my own 50/50 crisco/beeswax mix and it stays solid even in my car in Florida summertime temps. A little too hard probably, esp if I want something to go into hunting season (as cold as 30 and as hot as 90 are possible, Florida weather is as crazy as Florida Man). Gonna re-do, 25% beeswax, 75% crisco and then add a dollop of lanolin.

And yes, felt wad between powder and bullet is next step for me as well... just waffling on ordering wad material vs. pre-punched (already found punch at a pawn shop for $5 )

If you end up shooting a lot the Maxis from Dixie Gun Works may be a little cheaper (just under 50c/ea w/ shipping) or balance it out by ordering in larger lots from RMC (I've ordered from both, love the speed of service from both, and the fact they don't spam me or sell my email info, both are great to do business with)

 

[e.estern]

Thanks for all the advice. If I continue experimenting with the Maxi Balls I’ll try wads as recommended. It does feel like I’m stressing such a light rifle (and my shoulder!) though, so I'm thinking I should stick with PRBs. Cheaper too. Conicals just look so much deadlier, but I guess countless deer have been cleanly taken by .45 cal round balls.

 

[kyron4]

The stresses on a rifle are greater when firing heavy conicals than when firing prb. It's just my opinion but the Seneca is a small, light rifle and I would not want to stress it when shooting prb does the job with accuracy and power. Nipples burn out more quickly than the ones using the milder prb.

I agree with the added stress, but are you talking about possible stock cracks ? How is the Seneca less robust than say a Renegade or a Traditions Hawken ? 70 gr. of 2f seems "mild" compared to the 90 to 100 grs. most shoot these with. Just curious.

 

[nit wit]

I would use .440 round balls. Don't underestimate the round ball. Accuracy is far more important than the weight of the projectile. It would be a shame to crack that stock! 50-60 grains (per volume) .440 round ball and a .15 patch.
Good hunting
Nit Wit

 

[e.estern]

I agree with the added stress, but are you talking about possible stock cracks ? How is the Seneca less robust than say a Renegade or a Traditions Hawken ? 70 gr. of 2f seems "mild" compared to the 90 to 100 grs. most shoot these with. Just curious.

The Seneca has a reputation on the internet. The slim wrist on the stock combined with less than perfect inletting on some examples has resulted in cracks to the rear of the lock or tang. It also has a thinner barrel than most Hawken style rifles. T/C published separate load data for it and the similar Cherokee with lighter maximum loads. I don’t know how common this actually is, but out of the half dozen or so that I looked at when trying to find a decent condition Seneca, one had this crack. I'd hate to damage mine.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I agree with the added stress, but are you talking about possible stock cracks ? How is the Seneca less robust than say a Renegade or a Traditions Hawken ? 70 gr. of 2f seems "mild" compared to the 90 to 100 grs. most shoot these with. Just curious.

Its a smaller stock with a much more slender wrist than a Renegade or a Traditions Hawken. There is less wood in the lock area. The smaller Senecas and Cherokees are more prone to stock cracks and a 70 grain load is more than a mild load for the Seneca stock.

 

[e.estern]

I'll try 70gr 2F and maybe 60gr 3F with PRBs next, and see which shoots better. T/C recommended 70 2F in some of their literature.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@e.estern, the T/C recommendation was for GOEX 2f powder, not a more energetic powder such as Swiss 2f or a 3f powder. Some of the black powder substitutes also generate more internal pressures than GOEX 2f. Exercise caution when trying out these maximum loads.

 

[towgunner11h]

I used to shoot a lot of maxi balls, both from an Investarms .50 and a T/C Renegade .54. Usually with bore butter for lube. No wad. Never got anything but cloverleaf groups at 50 yards. This with either Pyrodex R/S or the Holy Black Goex 2f. Of course, I was younger then and could see much better. Charges were around 80 grains for the .50 and 90 grains for the .54, iirc.

 

[e.estern]

T/C recommendation was for GOEX 2f powder, not a more energetic powder such as Swiss 2f or a 3f powder. Some of the black powder substitutes also generate more internal pressures than GOEX 2f. Exercise caution when trying out these maximum loads.

I'm definitely trying 2F first starting at 60gr, and I won't exceed 70 gr. The T/C recommended max load for the Seneca/Cherokee is 90gr 2F with a PRB, so hopefully that will be within safe parameters. 70 gr 2F is the load the load they recommend for best accuracy. If I don't get the accuracy I'm hoping for with 2F I'll try 3F, but at reduced charges to compensate for the higher energy per volume. I had another Seneca in the past and it shot balls very well with 60gr 2F. I never tried anything hotter in it.

 

[45man]

I have cast and tested all my life and as far as lubes go, there is a huge difference in them. You can go from a 6 inch group to one hole with just a lube change. I dumped wonder lube after a few tests.
One thing to remember is if you can recover maxie ball or bullets and see chunks of lube left in the grooves, you are shooting out of balance projectiles. ALL lube should spin off a bullet at muzzle exit.

 

[e.estern]

I decided to just work with PRBs. As for conical bullets--maybe next year, with a stouter rifle. I made it to the range today, tried a bunch of loads and somewhat haphazardly settled on 70gr of 2F, .440 ball . There was so much variance in my groups due to the rudimentary sights on this rifle that it was hard to draw definite conclusions. But my best couple of targets were with that load and it's also the one T/C recommends. Below is an example (off a rest).

 

[Stantheman86]

I know the .58 Maxi Balls whistle when they come out of the bore, it's neat