Livingstone in East Africa 1871

[Benmole]

Does anybody know what kind of muzzle loader David Livingstone was carrying in East Africa in 1871 - I specialize in historical reconstruction for National Geographic TV and I can't find the exact answer. I really try to get this kind of thing right. Thanks so much!

 

[ZUG]

Very interesting job you have -- I hope you will find your answer. I for one can't help you - I just wanted to comment on your job - good luck!

 

[sail32]

The Illustrated London News

You might try reading copies of the “Illustrated London News” from that era.
http://www.iln.org.uk/
http://www.iln.org.uk/searchresults.html?cx=partner-pub-5729996820841117%3Afuj2clchsp5&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Davis+Livingstone&sa=Search

 

[Rifleman1776]

I just finished reading a book about that kind of hunting during a time period about 1890 to early 1900's. They carried, at least, three rifles and a shotgun. The rifles were .450 to .500 double cartridge types loaded with cordite and two smaller ones in the 30-06 and .243 category, I forget the European designations.

 

[oneeye]

You can also read about Sir Samuel Baker. He was hunting Africa around this same era and his early hunting was with percussion guns, before cartridge guns took over.

 

[sail32]

If Livingstone outfitted in London before heading to Africa, one of the better gun dealers, Purdy, Boss, etc., may still have records of any purchase.

 

[Rod Lassey]

I don't know the answer, although you've been given some good leads.

However, as someone who routinely spots incorrect or anachronistic firearms on TV or movies, it's very nice to see the effort being made to get the details right. Thank you!


Rod

 

[thimble11]

I don't think cordite (nitrocellulose) powder had been invented in 1871.

 

[Jim Blair]

You have to keep in mind that Livingstone left England in 1866 on the expedition that found him in Africa in 1871.Some references mention him carrying a 6 shot revolver and a double rifle at different periods.His 1871 diary mentions ordering caps and flints from Zanzibar-
http://livingstone.library.ucla.edu/1871diary/transcriptions.htm#p1_cartridges

Bore gauge rifles were almost a given as hunting rifles in Africa during that period.Among the weapons Stanley took on his search to find Livingstone were an E.M.Reilley .500 revolver,a 4 bore rolling block,and a M1866 Winchester.It was reported he left a M1866 with Livingstone as a gift.A search of Livingstone's diaries might turn up some information.Upon his death his body and his personal possessions were returned to England.A search of museums there might turn up something.

 

[pripley]

The National Firearms Museum has a sample of a 4 Bore Rolling Block, I hope this link works:
http://shelf3d.com/l_-kEY43irQ#Stanley & Livingston 4 bore elephant gun. A National Firearms Museum Treasure Gun.

Massive 4 bore rolling block elephant gun used by British journalist Henry Morton Stanley on his African expedition to find Dr. Livingston. A Treasure Gun from the NRA National Firearms Museum.

 

[jdkerstetter]

I'd venture to say that none of the guns carried on this expedition were flintlocks. Am I in the wrong forum? :grin: Enjoy, J.D.

 

[pripley]

James Chuma & Abdallah Suzi (vers 1870-1880). Fidèles compagnons de voyage de David Livingstone pendant près de 15 ans. Sourcing image : «Africa, in the footsteps of the great explorers», Kingsley Holgate (2006). Bibliothèque Vert et Plume, mai 2008

This photo shows Livinston's companions. Abdallah is holding a double barrel percussion gun. The flints ordered from Zanzibar may have been for starting fires.
http://www.vertetplume.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/JamesChuma-AbdullahSuzi1.jpg

 

[Stumpkiller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_-kEY43irQ

Here is Stanley's elephant gun - a Belgian copy of a Remington!

 

[cynthialee]

:shocked2:

A 4 bore!?
Crazy talk I say!

I bet he paid for it later in life from shooting that monster.

 

[Zonie]

Gee. I didn't think cartridge guns were fair game for discussions on the forum. :hmm:

 

[cynthialee]

I didn't do it. I just followed the herd.
:grin:

 

[pripley]

You know this thread is going to get moved. The big question is, where is it going to reside? Livingstone was a missionary traveling light with some percussion guns for protection. Stanley was a heavily armed hunter/explorer. This thread is in the middle of a transition period for firearms. Nevertheless, I have enjoyed learning about Livingstone and Stanley.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Gee. I didn't think cartridge guns were fair game for discussions on the forum.

I'm not sure we are until we positively establish what Livingston actually carried, eh what? :wink:

Forsyth in the same time period was carrying

"..., a beautiful little 36-bore double rifle, carrying a conical ball of about 19 to the pound, a double smooth bore No. 14, another No. 8, and a two grooved rifle No. 12 "

albeit Forsyth was in India, not Africa, but I'd say no doubt they were not flintlocks, unless there was some question about resupply of caps or not carrying enough?

LD

 

[Rod Lassey]

Just a thought, but would the flints ordered be for the guns carried by his retinue? Flintlocks were still being sold and used in Africa to the mid-20th century.

Rod

 

[Jim Blair]

On that list were also a quantity of trade type goods,2 Frasilahs Cowries(1 frasilah=35 pounds) and 500 neck beads.The gun flints may have been a trade goods item.