Last of the Mohicans Rifle

[TFoley]

The movie is VASTLY better than the book... something people don't say very often. Cooper's writing is wretchedly bad.

At least you probably didn't have to read it in French, as I did as a child. Execrable is word used in both languages. Call me a xenophobe if you will, but to me 'Hawkeye' sounds far more 'manly' and convincing a name than 'Œil-de-Faucon'

 

[firemanjim68]

Here is a couple of recent pics of my "Killdeer" replica next to my other flinters.

 

[oldwood]

Stophel , I'm with you on the quality of the movie. I can only imagine the level of violence frontier warfare contained. The great acting in the action scenes , was a fascinating glance backwards into the violence of the times. The more I read old books about events from settling the country east of the Mississippi , the more I want to know. Currently reading a compilation of the adventures of Lewis Wetzel by Cecil Hartley. (Recommended reading). Wetzel took the word "vendetta" , to that possessed by any Indian to a new level. ..oldwood

 

[Kansas Jake]

Mr. Hargrove, we don't talk that way to each other here. I think you need to go elsewhere to spread vitriol.

 

[jonathan butcher]

We sure don’t. There are plenty of other places who welcome that kind of poison, this isn’t one of them.

 

[Rudyard]

I don't think that responce was called for . ..I believe the film people had John Bivens make a likley rifle but the directors wanted some longer fancifull rifle . .None of it relates to historical accuracy it was fiction from the giddy up so suggest run the customer a few options & leave it to Him or Her .
Rudyard

 

[firemanjim68]

There's a gun builder on Facebook and on YouTube that goes by Kashtuk Bowcraft that is currently building a LOTM rifle. I'm curious to see how his build will be but so far it seems spot on.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Even J. Fennimore Cooper didn't get the description of the rifle, Killdeer, correct for the period. It was introduced in the book, "Deerslayer". "Deerslayer" took place about 20 years prior to the F&I War time period of "The Last of the Mohicans".

Cooper's description of the rifle was of a rifle that by all historical evidence would have been made 50 years after the events of "Deerslayer".

 

[oldwood]

I have one more Mohican's scratch rifle to build , and as Rudyard says , It can be Iron parts like the movie gun , or brass. Think I'll do it in brass. I have a lot of brass parts left in my collection for that style rifle. ..............oldwood

 

[firemanjim68]

Brass will look nice.
I really didnt care for iron furniture so my buddy who made the rifle for me used German silver parts.
I've always liked the look of silver over brass.

 

[Rudyard]

Not sure I wrote of any metal option but as its all based on fanciful fiction it cant really matter unless you go by the film then its a' Much of a muchness 'really like Dickens es Mr Weller who asked how its spelt it with a V or a W replied "I spells it with a WE .". .
Rudyard

 

[firemanjim68]

When it comes to this rifle accuracy pretty much went out the window when it was built in the first place.
The original LOTM Killdeer was made with iron furniture but hey, if you like pretty guns like l do, then use whatever strikes your fancy.
As much as it costs to build a rifle nowadays, you might as well go nuts with this one cause like l said, historical accuracy doesn't apply to this gun in any way whatsoever.

 

[Orin]

How close to a French & Indian war era Killdeer rifle would you say the Kibler rifles designs are? Here is a photo of my Southern Mountian version and a photo of a Kibler made Colonial.

Here is Kiblers web site: For builders of contemporary flintlock long rifles

My Southern Mountain

Kibler's Colonial

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I like that wrap around the stock. Might try that.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

The holts one has a nicer trigger guard , great craftsmen in those far off days

 

[Notchy Bob]

How close to a French & Indian war era Killdeer rifle would you say the Kibler rifles designs are? Here is a photo of my Southern Mountian version and a photo of a Kibler made Colonial.

Here is Kiblers web site: For builders of contemporary flintlock long rifles

My Southern Mountain
View attachment 106472

Kibler's Colonial
View attachment 106473

The Kibler Southern Mountain Rifle is strictly 19th century in styling. Of the two Kibler kits, the Colonial is the only one that will get you anywhere close to the mid-18th century French & Indian War period. This is a "colonial" rifle, and we were still an aggregation of colonies at that time, and not a nation until the 1770's.

There are people on this forum who know a lot more about this than I do. However, it is my understanding that the various "schools" of regional gun making styles were not really that well defined at that early date. I think Mr. Kibler's Colonial rifle is sort of a composite design rather than a strict copy of any specific regional type.

In Cooper's novels, Natty Bumppo acquired Killdeer early in life. This was in The Deerslayer. He carried the rifle for the duration of his life, which ended with the book, The Prairie. I need to look it up and confirm this, but I seem to recall Natty saying shortly before his death that the rifle had been made in "York," although it was unclear to me whether this might have been York County, Pennsylvania, or the colony (later state) of New York, where Natty was from, and most of his early adventures took place. I think in one of the novels, he mentioned the rifle took 30 balls to the pound, which would be .538".

If you duplicate the movie rifle, you'll be looking at a custom job. For a rifle as described in the books, you have some latitude and I think the Kibler Colonial in .54 or .58 ought to get you close enough.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Gordoncourtney]

A very good point brought up. A movie rifle does not necessarily represent a rifle of that time period.
Think about the basics just needed to survive.
Is there an example of a original rifle from that time that could be used as a reference?

See holts 1840 be it converted to percussion page 5

 

[Gordoncourtney]

History was right under your nose at Bonhams San Francisco auction. I can do some better photos if requested

 

[Gordoncourtney]

More

 

[Gordoncourtney]

When it comes to this rifle accuracy pretty much went out the window when it was built in the first place.
The original LOTM Killdeer was made with iron furniture but hey, if you like pretty guns like l do, then use whatever strikes your fancy.
As much as it costs to build a rifle nowadays, you might as well go nuts with this one cause like l said, historical accuracy doesn't apply to this gun in any way whatsoever.

I went through Bonhams catalogs. Most of the above is early 19 century like 1820. But below. One is 1790 and the other is 18 th century like 1775 Sorry looks like some are upside down. Ha ha but you will cope no doubt